Accumulated Knowledge + Force of Negation viable right now?

@dr-j I found the exact same thing (pre-Oko) before I added the Force of Negations. If your opponent does resolve a planeswalker you are already in trouble but playing Tinker+Walk in the same turn is not that tough for this deck so it is not like all is lost.

@meadbert said in Accumulated Knowledge + Force of Negation viable right now?:


Very cool deck. I recommend trying out two cards.

Baral, Chief of Compliance not only makes your Accumulated Knowledges and Intuitions cheaper, but also turns your loaded counter suite into a filter engine.

Mystic Sanctuary seems ridiculous here. Casting those Accumulated Knowledge repeatedly seems quite good.

The two can occasionally pair together. Fetch Mystic Sanctuary to put something on top, counter their spell, draw it.

last edited by Zias

Agree about Mystic Sanctuary. That card is ridiculous.

The comes into play tapped is a bit annoying, but the fact that you fetch it means you run just 1 and then Fetch it when you want it.

Is it worth running more than 1?

I had briefly considered Baral before and rejected it without testing it, but now that your bring my attention back to it I like it more.

So last time I considred Baral I was running Mana Leaks in the Force of Negation slot so I when I opened with a land and a Mox I wanted to keep mana open for Mana Leak.

Now that I have Force of Negation it seems that playing Baral is a great turn 1 play.

One one hand Baral interacts favorably with the Tinker win because he is one more way to discard a Colossus.
On the other hand, in general he seems to fuel a Tendrils win even more. Being able to play AKs for {U} after a Yawg would make Tendrils easier.

The weakness of Baral vs Thirst is as a top deck in the mid to late game. Baral would function as sort of an extra mana source that I don't need while Thirst would see 3 more cards, but turn 1 Baral seems so strong.

Turn 1 Mox, Land, Baral.
Turn 2 Land: Opponents Turn: Intuition for 3xAK + AK for 3.

That seems like a fantastic opening.


My hunch is that one Mystic Sanctuary is correct here.

Generally, more the artifact mana you run, the less likely that >1 Mystic Sanctuary is where you want to be, since it's harder to get the trigger

last edited by Zias

Before adding cage or a 4 yixlid jailer, have you considered Ashiok, Dream Render for the sideboard? He has been very strong for me in control/fair blue builds, doing major work in both dredge and in slowing down tinker - citadel combos in P.O.

I'm even going to start testing him maindeck in some of my landstill lists.

I just think he's a very wide, one sided powerful card that maybe had a little shine taken from him bc of narset.

@ltdale I had not considred Ashiok, Dream Render. Is he really better than something like Tormod's Crypt? When playing against Dredge I badly want to get my hate down ASAP. The problem is the crucial swing game is when Dredge is on the play post board. If I give Dredge 2 turns undisrupted then my concern is my hand get ripped apart by Therapy and I lose Ashiok where as Tormod's Crypt can come down turn 1.

I can definitely see that Ashiok is more flexible and could be strong against various combo decks.

@meadbert you absolutely need the majority of your dredge hate to be playable on turn 1 or earlier. 1 ashiok can be ok if you have it for other matchups but you need some combination of crypt/trap/spellbomb, probably jailer.

@meadbert No. I agree you want fast dredge hate as well. I just look at your sideboard and see a different philosophy. if you want to consistently hit your specific hate i'd rock with a 4th jailer. but if you want to hit multiple angles and have a card that does double duty against p.o. i'm having a lot of success with ashiok.

i also think it should be looked at like other pw's in the format, most notably narset. even if you are playing only on color moxen, you are dropping it t1, or t2 some % of the time off of mulls and/or cantrips.

I like the Ashiok idea as well, but in a shell with Cabal/Dark Ritual. With the Intuitions you could run 1 of each, so it's either fuel for early Ashiok/Jailer/Discard, or Yawgmmoths Win Fuel for Tendrils later.

Also I would run Sower of Temptation over Control Magic in SB and as a 2 of. Run Fatal Push over the third IMO. With FoV and FoN running rampant CM seems no good.

Good luck with it.

last edited by Serracollector

@serracollector You raise a good point about Sower. I had been running Sower and switched to Control Magic when Dreadhorde was super popular and there were a zillion Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolts.

I am not sure that card is even good to bring in against Dreadhorde now. I mostly want Control Magic/Sower to handle Hollow One so I think the switch to Sower makes sense.

I was considering dropping Control Magic all together.

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