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    Reaction to the August 26 2019 B&R Announcement - with a focus on Dredge

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    • ajfirecracker
      ajfirecracker last edited by

      I recorded a little video where I shared my reactions to the announcement as well as some analysis about what the restrictions will do to Dredge deck construction going forward. I hope you enjoy!

      https://youtu.be/2ae3W1jl0Co

      "Pitch Dredge is the worst thing to happen to Vintage this decade." - 2015 Vintage Champion Brian Kelly

      youtube.com/user/ajfirecracker/videos
      twitch.tv/ajfirecracker

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      • BlindTherapy
        BlindTherapy last edited by

        good overview of potential changes in dredge. restriction was a bit silly, at least given their rationale: if they want to hit dredge, sure, but the reasons given are nonsense.

        A grave is the safest place to store ill-gotten treasures.

        NYSE 3 winner, vintage champs 2015 top 4, vintage champs mox emerald 2021 top 4.

        Unban Shahrazad.

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        • vaughnbros
          vaughnbros last edited by

          Based on what I collected before, Dredge was killing at 27% by the end of turn 2, and 60% by turn 3. Effectively would be less than that. So Dredge "effectively" decides its games very quickly.

          ajfirecracker 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • ajfirecracker
            ajfirecracker @vaughnbros last edited by

            @vaughnbros said in Reaction to the August 26 2019 B&R Announcement - with a focus on Dredge:

            Based on what I collected before, Dredge was killing at 27% by the end of turn 2, and 60% by turn 3. Effectively would be less than that. So Dredge "effectively" decides its games very quickly.

            I'm a little skeptical about that. Most Dredge lists I've seen recently did not have a Dread Return target that gave haste or did direct damage, so the Turn 2 kill % should be zero for such lists.

            None of the lists on Goldfish's metagame right now have a haste or direct damage target: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/vintage-wubg-96200#paper

            Even if you're right that Dredge is "effectively" killing on a very early turn (which I think is a fair claim if you're just saying in an abstract way that Dredge is faster than most blue control decks), I think Dredge is scoring kills more slowly than it typically has in the past, which raises the question of why a restriction due to speed would take place now.

            "Pitch Dredge is the worst thing to happen to Vintage this decade." - 2015 Vintage Champion Brian Kelly

            youtube.com/user/ajfirecracker/videos
            twitch.tv/ajfirecracker

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            • vaughnbros
              vaughnbros last edited by

              These decklists pass the turn at the end of turn 2 with a ton of zombies in play and a hellbent opponent. Dread Return might make the game physically end sooner, but it’s virtually over against a majority of decks if they haven’t interacted with, or killed you before your turn 2/3.

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              • ajfirecracker
                ajfirecracker last edited by

                But you said they kill at some rate and "effectively" kill before that... did you mean effectively the whole time? I'm not sure I really follow what you're saying

                "Pitch Dredge is the worst thing to happen to Vintage this decade." - 2015 Vintage Champion Brian Kelly

                youtube.com/user/ajfirecracker/videos
                twitch.tv/ajfirecracker

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • vaughnbros
                  vaughnbros last edited by

                  A person scooping end the game too so that certainly happens. Sometimes even turn 1. The physical end of the game is turn 1/2 there.

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