Hogaak Depths

[Bedell]

mijukumono

Has anyone else been playing Hogaak Depths? I’ve been having ok results (4-1s and 3-2s) with this original list and my variation.

4 verdant catacombs
2 bayou
1 forest
1 swamp
1 dryad arbor
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 dark depths
4 thespian’s stage
1 bojuka bog
1 sejiri steppe
1 wasteland
1 strip mine

3 mox diamond
4 thoughtseize
2 crop rotation
2 assassin’s trophy

4 deathrite shaman
4 elvish reclaimer
4 vampire hexmage
4 stitcher’s supplier
4 satyr wayfinder
4 hogaak, arisen necropolis

—————
4 ravenous trap
4 collector ouphe
1 chains of mephistopheles
1 karakas
1 bojuka bog
4 [cards that aren’t force of vigor]

I seem to be winning a very respectable number of G1s vs dredge, and the hogaak engine is very strong against BUG (obviously 20/20 is strong too). I’ve won a couple games against Lavinia by attacking with 3/4s and 2/1s with first strike so that’s definitely a fine plan c.

I’ve mostly been losing to swords to plowshares, and fast mystic forge starts where I’m not able to stick an Ouphe or I die before I can play it. I’m hoping the 4 force of vigor can help here, as well as vs citadel/outcome/oath.

I had a couple games early on where a jet/emerald wasn’t the color I wanted. Mox Diamond is obviously less powerful, but I haven’t been disappointed so far.

I believe this deck has legs, and it is certainly a very strong budget deck that doesn’t really miss the lotus/moxen. My next few leagues I will try Nurturing Peatlands and Blooming Marshes instead of fetch/duals to see if I can push the deck cost below $1000

[A Former User]

I’ve played a ton of turbo depths in vintage and had a lot of success with the deck.

Something I would strongly suggest is cabal therapy in a build like this. It gives you extra play With a lot of your creatures like supplier if you want to run it and let’s you 1) destroy an opponents hand if they’re fast than you like DPS for instance and 2) name specific blowout cards like swords.

Also the lack of any tutors at all seems really odd to me. In a black deck that wants specific cards almost all of the time running some amount of tutors is a really strong idea. My builds always maximize tutors to look for specific things.

Sejiri Steppe has also never been good for me in Vintage. It’s dead when you draw it and doesn’t add to your board unless you can always reliably rotate for it. Which is hard in this format. I love rotation and I will gladly jam it but getting your merit lage hit by swords and losing a land while your rotation gets missteped is a super feel bad.

I also always like running needle. Awesome protection and slows down your opponents. Also cheap for budget concerns.

Lastly, mental misstep is another really strong addition I’m always on 4 in a deck like this. If you’re worried about cost it’s very inexpensive. It gives you great turn 0 protection and also protects your threats from the dreaded swords or post board cards like needle shutting off your combo.

Just some thoughts.

Happy brewing.

[Bedell]

I’m not actually worried about cost as I play online, but I did think it’s cool how cheap this is.

I originally ran cabal therapy but switched it after losing a game to t1 mystic forge when I could have played a t1 discard. I’m sure therapy is better than I think, I’d like to find room for 1-2. Gitaxian probe also is very good

Imperial seal felt really bad, but demonic and vamp are probably fine, if a little bit slow. I’ll try them over the crop rotations again

I saw mental misstep, wasn’t sure if it fits in the hybrid decklist. It would do a lot of work against both Swords to Plowshares and Dark Ritual

I think hogaak is a better answer to wasteland than pithing needle, but it’s worth trying

Thanks for the input! It could be worthwhile to try pure depths to learn what holes I need to patch up with the hogaak plan

[A Former User]

For what it’s worth this is the latest version Of pure depths I played

Turbo Depths:

Maindeck (60)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Crop Rotation
1 Demonic Consultation
4 Duress
1 Imperial Seal
4 Mental Misstep
4 Thoughtseize
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
2 Pithing Needle
4 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Strip Mine
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15)
1 Fatal Push
3 Force of Vigor
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 chalice of the void
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

I would also consider lotus petal. I forgot to mention that. Your land count is a little low for Mox diamond. Petal not only speeds you up it also feeds Hogaak and doesn’t cost you as many cards from your hand.

[albarkhane]

Not exactly on the topic but i see that both lists are running chains in SB. I love the card but i have always been disapointed when i tried it on various decks.
What are your feelings about it here ?

[A Former User]

@albarkhane I love it. In certain metas I even run it main.

Depths allows you to have a fast clock with a lot of early game interaction. Often when you lose to blue it stems from 1) swords which is often an easily solvable issue when playing correctly or at least a very visible one to play around, and 2) blue lists have the ability to out tempo you a lot of the time via cantrips, recall, etc.

Chains gives you the ability to make all their cantrips significantly worse so they can’t dig for answers as fast. Meanwhile you get to protect yourself with missteps and a mountain of discard spells to pick them apart. Also, it’s not as popular right now, but the card is also insane at making paradoxical outcome really awful for the opponent. Meanwhile the deck isn’t affected by chains at all so there’s no downside since all your cards are selection or simply “putting cards into your hand.” You certainly can’t just lay chains down and do nothing for several turns after but this deck does a good job of keeping the pedal down after chains.

Chains is a niche card that needs a special home but this deck makes very good use of it. It’s also one of my favorite cards in the game so I’m always willing to give it a go and stick with it.

[ixid]

What does the combination of Hogaak and Depths give you vs more focused Depths or Dredge Hogaak lists? There doesn't seem to be that much synergy between the two strategies but I haven't tested this deck to see them.