@thewhitedragon69

I was reading about some and I can drop a few titans. To me and I am going to ask a few friends, some mana means some of 8 some I think, is = x so some has To be at lest one right? Some and creature is why mask is worth 1000+ dollars. At any rate I made the deck in in three days and still haven’t played it against any other deck. Have you ever tried volrath’s shapeshifter with phyrexian dreadnought? Ty everyone that contributed to this.

@jclnc007 So, I'm definitely sure you have to pay AT LEAST the CMC of the creature - but you can pay MORE to conceal the true cost (thus the flavor of the mask). It's expensive because it's a reserved list card and was never reprinted as in Revised edition. There's never been a time (pre or post errata) where you could play less than the CMC to get a creature into play. You could dodge the additional costs like sacrificing creatures, thus why dreadnought was a great combo. It also used to be an ability so you could dodge counterspells. After the errata, you are still casting the creature, so it can be countered (making mask virtually worthless outside of the dreadnought combo).

There was once a deck called Full English Breakfast that ran survival of the fittest, volrath's shapeshifter, masks, dreadnoughts, birds of paradise, and phage the untouchable. The trick was to either get a dreadnought into play via mask or shapeshifter copy OR survival a bird into your grave with shapeshifter in play, attack with flying for evasion, then survival a phage into the grave before damage so the opponent would die instantly.

@thewhitedragon69 I love full English breakfast. I recall when it was made in England. Do you have a deck list for it? Question: how do you get around sacrificing anything with Phyrexian dreadnought?

@jclnc007 you are either masking the dreadnought in or discarding dreadnought to survival of the fittest or shapeshifter when shapeshifter is in play.

I'm pretty sure mask gets around color costs because there was a Mask deck played around Mirage/Visions that used it to cast Lord of Tresserhorn without giving opponent all the bonuses.

@serracollector that has nothing to do with the color costs. mask does not get around color costs; whatever you pay into mask has to be mana that could have cast the creature in question. notably, you're using the mana to activate the ability, not cast the spell, which leads to corner cases like not being able to use cavern of souls colored mana, ancient ziggurat, eldrazi temple making 2, etc to mask a creature in.

I think there was a window when it did let you get around color requirements. Check out the outdated text on the image Scryfall shows for the MED version:

alt text

No mention of "mana that could be used to pay for it," just CMC. So this seems to be a case like Oubliette, where the card was simplified at one point and then later recomplicated in order to get it closer to the original functionality. Observe the much more complicated current wording:

alt text

In any case it never let you pay less than the CMC, as even the Alpha version makes clear:

alt text

It's one of those great weird Alpha wordings, but it does say that you still have to spend the mana that the spell actually costs.

Okay the feedback is awesome. I will use dreadnought. How in 2004 did people play get around powder keg?

@jclnc007

You should immediately put 4 Karn, the Great Creators into your deck. You'll never lose to your friend's Powder Keg again!

@craw_advantage Illusionary Mask is a truly insane card. Look at the Alpha wording again and remember that Morphs didn't exist for years. There was no such thing as a "face-down card", and the fact that a "face-down card" is a 2/2 creature with no abilities wasn't a thing. In Alpha, a Mask-face-down creature is just a creature with all of its characteristics, your opponent just doesn't know about them.

If you use Mask to play Shivan Dragon, you can pump its power without revealing it.

If you play a Serra Angel with Mask, you can attack with it and it won't flip until it deals damage. Your opponent can't block it without a flyer, but they don't know that it has flying.

If you use a Mask to play Rock Hydra it's going to have a bunch of counters on it. I guess. You could technically pay 10 mana and decide X=0 anyway.

If you play a Plague Rat with Mask, your other Plague Rats are bigger. It's kind of a tell, but your new rat is still face-down.

If you use a Mask to play a White Knight, and your opponent activates Pestilence, your White Knight won't flip up and your opponent won't know why. If they play a Swords to Plowshares on a Black Knight they committed an illegal action and ... well, I guess that depends on the REL level? Of course, REL levels didn't exist. Maybe you tell your opponent "sorry you can't do that, pick something else."

The card was sheer and utter madness. I don't know how long things worked this way. I'm guessing they changed the rules on this card before Arabian Nights was out, but I'm sure there were a lot of house rules surrounding the card. If anyone was around the competitive scene in the early early days I'd love to hear how it was handled. I've always been fascinated and terrified by the implications of the card before they added "status" to the game rules.

@jclnc007 If you plan to add Dreadnought, then it seems your deck will be kind of a weird hybrid of two old archetypes from back in 2003/2004- MaskNaught, and 7/10 Split.
An example list of 7/10 Split from around that time can be found here.
An example MaskNaught list can be found here.

While neither is particularly relevant in Vintage these days, they're still fun archetypes to play around with. My recommendation would be to pick one strategy to focus on, rather than try to mash two fairly different decks together. I think you'll have more success and more fun that way. 🙂

last edited by revengeanceful

Richard Garfield said some mana but not all mana at Origins.

@jclnc007 said in 7/10 split:

Richard Garfield said some mana but not all mana at Origins.

I had a doubt.
You were a funny one tho.

last edited by Megustalabanana

@brass-man said in 7/10 split:

The card was sheer and utter madness. I don't know how long things worked this way. I'm guessing they changed the rules on this card before Arabian Nights was out, but I'm sure there were a lot of house rules surrounding the card. If anyone was around the competitive scene in the early early days I'd love to hear how it was handled. I've always been fascinated and terrified by the implications of the card before they added "status" to the game rules.

I had played a few tournaments back in those days. You are right the card was madness (similar to chaos orb in a way). It was not very easy then to get a full playset of it and there was not many competitive interactions with it so people were playing it mostly in casual decks. i remember i saw one being played in a tournament once but a disenchant flew on it immediately. If i remember well, Wizard produced quickly some errata and explanation in old Duellist mag. I still have them somewhere, i will check.

last edited by albarkhane

You could always check out "The Riddler" circa 2004 if you are into the mask/dreadnaught thing ;). I hear it was kinda decent back in the day, lol.

@thewhitedragon69 said in 7/10 split:

You could always check out "The Riddler" circa 2004 if you are into the mask/dreadnaught thing ;). I hear it was kinda decent back in the day, lol.

Deck list for reference.
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=10860&d=262046&f=VI

last edited by John Cox

@john-cox Wow - that brings back some memories. I haven't looked at that list in forever. I remember the 4x trinisphere days were just absurd, but the 4x chalice version after the trini restriction was still amazing. The ability to mask in a 1cmc dreadnaught through a chalice @1 was the bee's knees. Loved that deck.

Side note - if I remember correctly, at the time, it was the most expensive deck list in paper ever built!

  • 30
    Posts
  • 2906
    Views