Navigation

    The Mana Drain

    • Register
    • Login
    • Search
    • Strategy
    • Community
    • Tournaments
    • Recent

    [M20] Embodiment of Agonies

    Single-Card Discussion
    11
    20
    6312
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • E
      evouga last edited by

      alt text

      1BB
      Creature -- Demon
      Flying, Deathtouch
      Embodiment of Agonies enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each different mana cost (note: not converted mana cost) among nonland cards in your graveyard.

      So to be clear, I don't think a straight beater is playable in Vintage anymore. And if I did, I'm not sure this guy is better than, say, Tombstalker. But the textbox here is so unusual I wanted to call attention to it.

      Unlike Tarmogoyf, the power/toughness of Embodiment is locked in when you cast him; in the mid- to late-game, though, you get an awful lot of evasive body for three mana, even if you're not purposefully stocking the graveyard with Bazaar, dredging, etc.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • BlindTherapy
        BlindTherapy last edited by

        does phyrexian mana count as a different cost? i would imagine hybrid does.

        A grave is the safest place to store ill-gotten treasures.

        NYSE 3 winner, vintage champs 2015 top 4, vintage champs mox emerald 2021 top 4.

        Unban Shahrazad.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • E
          evouga last edited by

          I think so? According to the comp. rules,

          A card’s mana cost is indicated by mana symbols near the top of the card. (See rule 107.4.)

          so I think costs involving Phyrexian mana, Snow mana, Hybrid mana, etc are all distinct from "ordinary" colored mana costs. I believe that X is also considered distinct from 0 or XX.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • ?
            A Former User last edited by

            So if you were to Oath this into play it would be like a 13/13 right off the bat.

            W 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
            • W
              Wagner @Guest last edited by

              @desolutionist True, but is that better than having any of the big hasty flyers? It's easier to cast, but there is also a chance you end up with a 8/8 that gives a 3-4 turn clock.

              ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • ?
                A Former User @Wagner last edited by

                @wagner said in [M20] Embodiment of Agonies:

                @desolutionist True, but is that better than having any of the big hasty flyers? It's easier to cast, but there is also a chance you end up with a 8/8 that gives a 3-4 turn clock.

                I don't know, I was just identifying some context with how big it could be. I don't necessarily believe it's good at all, I'd have to test it out. Oath is certainly a place you could start since it's very good at putting cards into the graveyard. Who knows, maybe it's reliably a 16/16 and Reckless Charge is GG?

                It's good to have Oath targets that you can cast. I've been using Niv Mizzet, Inferno Titan, and Archon myself. They're weaker than some other options but it is reasonable to cast any of those from the hand unlike Emrakul or Griselbrand. Emodiment of Agonies is even cheaper, which would help to mitigate some of the pitfalls of playing Oath.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • vaughnbros
                  vaughnbros last edited by

                  How big does a vanilla beater have to be to be playable?

                  xXHazardXx E 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • xXHazardXx
                    xXHazardXx @vaughnbros last edited by

                    @vaughnbros

                    How often does a 20/20 Flying/Indestructible show up?

                    vaughnbros 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • vaughnbros
                      vaughnbros @xXHazardXx last edited by

                      @xxhazardxx

                      That card also has Flash.

                      xXHazardXx 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • xXHazardXx
                        xXHazardXx @vaughnbros last edited by

                        @vaughnbros said in [M20] Embodiment of Agonies:

                        @xxhazardxx

                        That card also has Flash.

                        My point being... not often. So, sure 20/20 Flash (I'll give you that), Flying and Indestructible an we still barely see it.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • vaughnbros
                          vaughnbros last edited by

                          I ask because if you built around this you can easily make it a 20/20 in Oath or Dredge at only 3 mana. It doesn’t pick up Dragon Breath though so you are going to have to pass after “going off” or using some likely bad card that gives haste.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • M
                            Macdeath last edited by

                            Another thing this does is that even when not big, it still functions as a removal spell or a tempo play.
                            I could see this in the sideboard of a combo deck where it either provides an alternate win-con in the face of hate or it buys you enough time to stitch together a win.
                            It's hard to evaluate how reliable this card is though, which will ultimately be the deciding factor on whether this is actually playable.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • E
                              evouga @vaughnbros last edited by

                              @vaughnbros to be fair, while deathtouch is only marginally relevant, flying is far from vanilla as in Vintage it will be unblockable in most situations.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • S
                                Serracollector last edited by

                                Could this have merit in the darker survival lists, like the ones running Death's Shadow, Dr. Shaman, and Street Wraiths? This alongside Death's Shadow and Vengevines/Hollow Ones is a lot of beef.

                                vaughnbros 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                • K
                                  Khahan last edited by Khahan

                                  So Ponder and git probe in the yard means this is a 2/2 right?
                                  What about something like ancestral visions with no mana cost (not advocating a deck with AV to make this bigger, just questioning how the rules work)?

                                  As far as decks this fits into - seems like a capable finish for mono black control or oath. Consider many strategies against oath include an early 'cant enter except from being cast' type card to stall out oath until they can go off, having this drop on turn 3 or 4 can really change games. We've all seen oath games where oath hits the board, the next turn cage hits the board, then its draw-go for ages. Those become, Oath, then cage, then this after a resolved oath trigger as a 10/10 or something around there. Thats game over.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • Boogdish
                                    Boogdish last edited by

                                    Rules question: How would this work with split cards? I know when looking at CMC you add both sides together, but this seems different. Does [[fire-ice]] get seen as 1U and 1R, or as just 2UR?

                                    If it does count as two different costs, split card tribal would be a fun deck to try, though obviously not competitive.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • W
                                      Wagner last edited by

                                      I see why this is not templated like Tarmogoyf, it would be a pain to keep track of the P/T at all times.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • C
                                        Cuikui last edited by

                                        @Boogdish Split cards count for only one.

                                        708.4b The mana cost of a split card is the combined mana costs of its two halves. A split card’s
                                        colors and converted mana cost are determined from its combined mana cost.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Boogdish
                                          Boogdish last edited by

                                          Thanks Cuikui!

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • vaughnbros
                                            vaughnbros @Serracollector last edited by

                                            @serracollector

                                            Seems the most natural fit without trying to warp a Dredge/Oath list around an aggro card.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • First post
                                              Last post