[MH1] Echo of Eons
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@gkraigher High tide? Why would hey play this when [[Time Reversal]] exists? Playing 3 of these just because they could be useful with Intuition or Frantic Search seems bad to me.
But anyway. In Vintage I don't see much applications for this. Dack, JVP and Bazaar all help, but do you want a draw 7 in a deck like that. I mean, do you want draw 7 number 4 after Twister, Wheel and Windfall?
I’d rather play this card than Windfall.
Cambriel last edited by
While you can try to go for this off LED, you're stone dead to a Force of Will so it feels awfully risky.
It isn't so difficult to cast this normally for 6 and have it resolve into your graveyard, at which point the potential card advantage becomes extreme. It is incredibly unique in that aspect, as most other draw 7's need help/luck to chain, this only needs mana.
I’d rather play this card than Windfall.
Come on, really? The only deck I see playing Windfall these days is PO and I'd rather have Windfall, which can draw 10+ cards, than this. The fact that it chain on itself, making you have a second draw 7 after is resolves is cool though.
@fsecco it's only a joke...
I like this in Oath. It recycles the deck and combos with stuff like niv mizzet. Could even run notion thief or leovold in the deck really.
Yeah I didn’t even think about this in Niv Oath; holy smokes. But Niv is not such a great Oath target while Karakas runs rampant even in maindecks...
I thought of it in Oath as well, but my friend reminded me that if you trigger Oath you already are winning.
@desolutionist that hasn't been my experience playing oath and against oath.
Has anyone played with this card since it’s release?
I have found it to be quite powerful. The thing that gets lost is that casting a card from your graveyard is essentially card advantage depending on how you got it there. This allows you to win battles of attrition against other Blue decks and provides a significant advantage over Wheel, Windfall, etc. You can also hardcast and the card will remain in you graveyard to flashback, which is a not infrequent scenario that has felt positively absurd when it occurs.
As far as breaking the symmetry, their are many ways, such as Lavinia, Grid, Narset, Teferi, Notion Thief. Enablers include Dack, Intuition, JVP, Entomb, Tutors + LED, but my current favorite is Riddlesmith by a considerable margin. I will be playing a Riddlesmith Combo deck at the NYSE and look forward to describing the deck’s interactions and intricacies but simply imagine the number of artifacts a storm deck casts after resolving a draw 7. Then add more draw 7’s and you reach a point where you are literally (and yes, actual literally) drawing over a hundred cards in your combo turn before casting multiple time walks and maybe a Mentor. It’s pretty glorious.
I don’t believe I have found an optimal build but I do think after the initial hype that this card has fallen by the wayside. Is that the case?
vaughnbros last edited by
I played against someone that was running it with Faithless looting. It seemed to struggle mightily against GY hate though.
Yeah, Looting is going deeper than I would go and setting yourself up to lose to such cards. I don’t think I’ve lost to Leyline yet. You either bounce it with Teferi or chain or just discard your Echoes while the opponent is down a card. Interesting approach though.
I have with Intuition, Baral, and Frantic Search. It’s broken. Easy turn 2-3 lethal Grapeshots. I just am focused on something else right now.
2 Flooded Strand
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mana Crypt
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Polluted Delta
4 Baral, Chief of Compliance
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Echo of Eons
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Frantic Search
4 Mental Misstep
1 Sol Ring
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
4 Force of Will
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Yixlid Jailer
4 Ravenous Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Nature's Claim
It’s worth mentioning that Echo isn’t actually central to the decks strategy, it’s just an upgrade over what used to be Deep Analysis
Why would you want to play this card over the plethora of alternatives that are all more broken and more practical?
What does this card enable that you couldn't do before that is better than what the current combo decks are doing?
I have a hard time buying that you end up ahead vs a control deck by putting 6 mana into this card (which can be pyroblasted or flusterstormed) to get it countered and recasting it on the following turn. Or even that this is a frequent enough occurrence to be reliable.
BlindTherapy last edited by
@macdeath casting it for 6 mana is not the primary idea; discarding it to cards like riddlesmith, baral,frantic search, lion's eye diamond, dack and then casting it for three is the point.
@blindtherapy But isn't that a lot of set up required when you already have a critical mass of cards that can produce the same effect which are more reliable.
Define critical mass? I think there are exactly two that are better or don't also put large (larger?) constraints on your deck than this. Outcome would be the obvious other, but there is a lot of hate for outcome in the format at the moment (karn, ouphe, narset), only some of which similarly affects this card.
The best reason (right now), is with 5 twisters you can prevent Dredge from ever doing anything in game 1. The other reason is it’s a bomby draw engine that doesn’t heavily rely on artifacts like PO. But in a vacuum, I’d agree that PO is a better card.
But this is no slouch either. If you’ve ever Echo of Eons twice on turn one, you’d know what I mean. It’s broken. You just have to build around it.
You agree it’s at least better than Deep Anal for a combo deck, right?