[MH1] Echo of Eons

BlindTherapy

@fsecco easier to just ban this, and not kill multiple decks in the process.

Serracollector

All the more reason to run 4 Narset.

nsammael

@fsecco said in [MH1] Echo of Eons:

This will get LED banned in Legacy.

It's the 53° end of Magic

@nsammael said in [MH1] Echo of Eons:

@fsecco said in [MH1] Echo of Eons:

This will get LED banned in Legacy.

It's the 53° end of Magic

Am I saying any of this? Don't patronize.

@blindtherapy said in [MH1] Echo of Eons:

@fsecco easier to just ban this, and not kill multiple decks in the process.

They usually go after the big mana first. And since this card is nothing without LED in Legacy, I wonder what path they'll take. They may take the road they did with Mox Opal in Modern, letting it stay because it saw play in more archetypes (and this will probably only see play in Storm/Ad Nauseam) so yeah, maybe this gets the axe. And yeah, maybe the deck isn't even that good and stuff like Force of Negation can keep it in check.

They aren’t going to kill:

Dredge
All versions of combo
And a couple versions of reanimator

To save a card that when combined in decks with time spiral can take forever to finish games.

This won’t take long until it gets banned in Legacy because of High Tide.

This post is deleted!

@gkraigher High tide? Why would hey play this when [[Time Reversal]] exists? Playing 3 of these just because they could be useful with Intuition or Frantic Search seems bad to me.
But anyway. In Vintage I don't see much applications for this. Dack, JVP and Bazaar all help, but do you want a draw 7 in a deck like that. I mean, do you want draw 7 number 4 after Twister, Wheel and Windfall?

evouga

I’d rather play this card than Windfall.

Cambriel

While you can try to go for this off LED, you're stone dead to a Force of Will so it feels awfully risky.

pilsburydohboy42

It isn't so difficult to cast this normally for 6 and have it resolve into your graveyard, at which point the potential card advantage becomes extreme. It is incredibly unique in that aspect, as most other draw 7's need help/luck to chain, this only needs mana.

@evouga said in [MH1] Echo of Eons:

I’d rather play this card than Windfall.

Come on, really? The only deck I see playing Windfall these days is PO and I'd rather have Windfall, which can draw 10+ cards, than this. The fact that it chain on itself, making you have a second draw 7 after is resolves is cool though.

nsammael

@fsecco it's only a joke...

Tittliewinks22

I like this in Oath. It recycles the deck and combos with stuff like niv mizzet. Could even run notion thief or leovold in the deck really.

evouga

Yeah I didn’t even think about this in Niv Oath; holy smokes. But Niv is not such a great Oath target while Karakas runs rampant even in maindecks...

@tittliewinks22

I thought of it in Oath as well, but my friend reminded me that if you trigger Oath you already are winning.

Tittliewinks22

@desolutionist that hasn't been my experience playing oath and against oath.

Has anyone played with this card since it’s release?

I have found it to be quite powerful. The thing that gets lost is that casting a card from your graveyard is essentially card advantage depending on how you got it there. This allows you to win battles of attrition against other Blue decks and provides a significant advantage over Wheel, Windfall, etc. You can also hardcast and the card will remain in you graveyard to flashback, which is a not infrequent scenario that has felt positively absurd when it occurs.

As far as breaking the symmetry, their are many ways, such as Lavinia, Grid, Narset, Teferi, Notion Thief. Enablers include Dack, Intuition, JVP, Entomb, Tutors + LED, but my current favorite is Riddlesmith by a considerable margin. I will be playing a Riddlesmith Combo deck at the NYSE and look forward to describing the deck’s interactions and intricacies but simply imagine the number of artifacts a storm deck casts after resolving a draw 7. Then add more draw 7’s and you reach a point where you are literally (and yes, actual literally) drawing over a hundred cards in your combo turn before casting multiple time walks and maybe a Mentor. It’s pretty glorious.

I don’t believe I have found an optimal build but I do think after the initial hype that this card has fallen by the wayside. Is that the case?

vaughnbros

@chubbyrain

I played against someone that was running it with Faithless looting. It seemed to struggle mightily against GY hate though.

Yeah, Looting is going deeper than I would go and setting yourself up to lose to such cards. I don’t think I’ve lost to Leyline yet. You either bounce it with Teferi or chain or just discard your Echoes while the opponent is down a card. Interesting approach though.