@nba84 said in [MH1] Force of Negation:

I can appreciate the power of a 0 mana counter spell, but how many decks (aside from perhaps Standstill) want FoW 4-8?

How many more decks do you need? There is only one deck in the format running oath of druids and forbidden orchard but it is likely if they could have 5 they would. Narrow does not mean bad nor does it mean its not going to be a staple.

@protoaddict if you read my post carefully you'll notice it's a question not a statement.

Although the card has the laziest name (FoW + Pact of Negation) it's a pretty clever design. I like it a lot. Now, this makes Teferi, Time Raveler even better. Being able to combo, Tinker or whatever during your opponents turn and have more ways to protect it seems relevant.

Pitch Dredge will play 4.

I think it’s much closer to a 4-of in other FoW decks than a 1-of too.

  1. This card is very cast-able in a blue shell.
  2. How many hands do you play where you say, if only I had a Force?
  3. Every current deck is capable of surging a 2 for 1 if it comes with a massive gain in tempo.
  4. Unlike typical anti-Storm cards this is solid against Shops, stopping turn 1 three-ball, CotV, sphere lock out and other problematic openers.

Blue decks have access to more card draw than ever before with A call, Cruise, Dig, PO, TfK, Standstill, Planeswalkers, etc etc. Running 8 Forces is card disadvantage, but with the mass draw how much of that drawback is negated (no pun intended)? I think this card alone is going to keep Gush on the restricted list for a long time.

last edited by Serracollector

The comparison to FOW is that you pitch a blue card but you don’t lose a life which is very relevant. You can only pitch when it’s not your turn and it can’t hit creatures. So, it’s good in blue mirrors and against certain combo decks.

This card is for sure playable and will see play especially since we have the insane planeswalkers running around that are only starting to change the meta. Even against shops you can stop Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistance on their turn one. I would say 2 of main maybe over Flusterstorm.

@fsecco said in [MH1] Force of Negation:

Although the card has the laziest name (FoW + Pact of Negation) it's a pretty clever design. I like it a lot. Now, this makes Teferi, Time Raveler even better. Being able to combo, Tinker or whatever during your opponents turn and have more ways to protect it seems relevant.

I'm not sure how lazy it is since I believe you got it wrong. The card is Force of Will because of the pitch ability, but also Negate because of the can't counter creatures aspect. If it was based of pact I assume there would be a tax on it but could counter anything.

@protoaddict Ha, I was wondering what the Pact of Negation reference was about and that didn't even occur to me! They should have called it Force of Anticombo.

@bactgudz said in [MH1] Force of Negation:

Worst card name ever

We just had a creature called "Massacre Girl."

We have a legendary named fllpggpshshthsp. Come on.

Guys, he said worst card name ever, not best.

Has anyone played with this card yet? I have and believe it to be just as good as Force of Will in most situations.

8 Fows takes us back to a time with 4 Merchant Scrolls, in which Force of Will was a frequent turn one Scroll target. Upon its restriction, Imperial Seal used in conjunction with Sensei’s Divining Top was the best replacement; It was very good to have access to a turn 1 Force of Will. Overtime Vintage changed and needing to start the game with a FoW was less of a requirement.

Having 8 FoWs in your deck completely changes the game, especially upon the arrival of the London mulligan. The London mulligan is going to entice players into more bomb (Draw7, Karn, etc.) driven opening lines that are just going to be stopped by a Force.

FoN’s first natural home is in Landstill, but I suspect it should be played in all blue decks and will soon be a $100 card.

Not paying mana for things is just where it’s at.

last edited by desolutionist

@desolutionist said in [MH1] Force of Negation:

Has anyone played with this card yet?

Not yet, but the set goes live on MODO today so the preliminary online results should start trickling in this Sunday and be in full force by the following Sunday.

It’s format warping in my opinion. More so than the Planeswalkers. It is a Force of Will after all. (Force of Will has been amongst the most played card in the format for a long, long time)

It’s also just a natural foil to the combo response to the London mulligan. It also counters Narset and Karn. (obv)

It’s difficult to say if blue would become strictly of the Landstill flavor though, since going that route with this card is pretty attractive.

last edited by desolutionist

I've been using one Force of Negation in Oath where I had been using Mindbreak Trap. Overall, Mindbreak Trap is the stronger card, but this card is more versatile. It stops the lines where the other player was avoiding the Trap. It can also just be hard cast, so I consider it an upgrade.

@jimtosetti said in [MH1] Force of Negation:

It can also just be hard cast, so I consider it an upgrade.

As can mindbreak trap

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