[WAR] Narset, Parter of Veils
-
@chubbyrain
I've lost many a game already trying to wish for Ensnaring Bridge against an aggro deck. I think there is a reason most of the decks have Wurmcoil and/or Batterskulls instead, but its not like those aren't cards that decks already should have answers too as well.
-
I for one think it's really the time we start playing stuff like [[The Elderspell]], [[Price of Betrayal]] or other cards that kill non-blue AND blue PWs. Any ideas?
The problem is that Karn is immediately out of Price of Betrayal's range and also destroying a PW after an activation is usually just bad, as we already discussed here. Maybe that card that counters a colorless spell?
EDIT: [[Ceremonious Rejection]]
-
@fsecco I'm not sure if the answer is specific planeswalker killers or more burn spells or more creatures or what. Are there any good haste creatures out there?
-
@fsecco Cards like [[Pithing Needle]], [[Sorcerous Spyglass]] and [[Phyrexian revoker]] are possible answers. They do not deal with the static abilities of WAR planewalkers but they have application outside of fighting planewalker.
-
@cuikui Needle effects are very lackluster against opposing Karns, Narsets and Teferis.
-
This card's static ability reminds of the effect that four Trinispheres had. When Trinisphere is played in the first couple turns the opposing decks may not be able to cast spells. If the opponent is also a Mud deck they have a much better chance of being to cast spells under the Trinisphere. This card is somewhat the opposite. Opposing blue decks can basically just be shut out of the game on the spot. So in a way the effect is much more powerful. However, this card is weak to Shops, so blue decks seem to be even weaker to Mud than before. Although this card hasn't been able to dominate top eights, it has essentially cut other blue decks out of contention. I think Vintage is healthier without this as a four of.
-
@vaughnbros said in [WAR] Narset, Parter of Veils:
@chubbyrain
I've lost many a game already trying to wish for Ensnaring Bridge against an aggro deck. I think there is a reason most of the decks have Wurmcoil and/or Batterskulls instead, but its not like those aren't cards that decks already should have answers too as well.
I’m sure you have. Kind of slow in that respect.
-
@jimtosetti This card is in no way like trinisphere. You can play spells vs a turn 1 Narset....you just can't play DRAW spells. That's the fault of the blue decks being draw spell decks with 1-2 threats. Any non-greedy deck blasts through Narset. Trini didn't care what spells you had, you couldn't cast them.
Narset is more like "In the Eye of the Storm" or "Chains of Mephistopheles" if we're making a card compare. They nerf draw/cantrip spells...and nothing else.
-
@thewhitedragon69 I'm pretty sure Narset does much more than Chains. She doesn't "only" impede drawing (which I contend is a bigger impediment than you're presuming,) but she also offers exceptional card selection, sometimes chaining into another Narset.
Narset allows you to see 8 cards into the deck (with two activations,) while at the same time inhibiting the opponent's draws.
-
@thewhitedragon69 said in [WAR] Narset, Parter of Veils:
@jimtosetti This card is in no way like trinisphere. You can play spells vs a turn 1 Narset....you just can't play DRAW spells. That's the fault of the blue decks being draw spell decks with 1-2 threats. Any non-greedy deck blasts through Narset. Trini didn't care what spells you had, you couldn't cast them.
Narset is more like "In the Eye of the Storm" or "Chains of Mephistopheles" if we're making a card compare. They nerf draw/cantrip spells...and nothing else.
I'm not going to get into a non statistic based compare and contrast with you. The reference pertains to the amount of spells that can be cast and their effect. The change in the meta shows how strong this card is. You can minimize the issue by saying one player is greedy, but it comes down to results. This card is too broken to be a four of.
Also, if you don't take things so literally you might understand the context of the person's statement. The card's effect is similar to Trinisphere in relation to the amount of cards in hand that can no longer be cast. In a way it is stronger towards a blue deck because its not something that more mana solves.
-
@jimtosetti I get that, but my point is that Narset is a trinisphere vs blue draw...and thats it. It is a slower impulse vs every other deck. Trinisphere did trinisphere things vs EVERY deck and you couldn't fight through without having your own workshop. 4 trini had to be restricted because it meant you played the mirror, or you weren't playing anything at all. Narset just means you're not playing blue draw, but you can play everything else. I don't mind one strategy getting punished so long as it doesn't hit all strategies like trini did.
-
@horologium I know I'm in the minority here, but I actually see her squashing of draw to be a good thing. The double impulse for sorcery speed 1UU over 2 turns is fine. That's solid, but not OP. Her turning off opposing draw is only a detriment if you are running a draw-heavy cantrip deck. Run anything that doesn't just try to draw its deck into a scant amount of threats, and you are just facing a double impulse enchantment with no static ability.
If this pushes more decks away from the "I draw 50 cards and play my 1 kill spell" decks, then I'm all for it.
The one exception I see to this is draw 7 decks that can abuse her. That could be problematic...but then she is also a weapon AGAINST that type of deck. And at least that would be a new-ish type of deck. If it becomes dominant, I'll rethink my position on Narset. But if we end up with a decent draw 7 deck and a bunch of decks that rely on tutor, filter, and topdeck (or at least JUST ancestral and a couple more draw spells as opposed to 22 mana, 36 draw spells and 2 threats), I'll be happy with that.
-
@thewhitedragon69
if only we had parter of veils sooner.
The format is better off having her as a four-of for now.
We will see how Xerox decks fair in the london mulligan/Narset era, on the way.My 2cents, anyways.
-
@thewhitedragon69 said in [WAR] Narset, Parter of Veils:
@horologium I know I'm in the minority here, but I actually see her squashing of draw to be a good thing.
It's not like this static ability is original or anything. There are now a handful of effects that do this, not least of which is Leovald, Spirit of the Labyrinth, and Notion Thief, but Narset does feel more obnoxious than others. I think that's less a commentary on Narset than the fact that cards like Preordain are so widely played in the format, and Narset is so pesky for them.
-
Narset feels better because outside of the draw killing static she is also
Easier to cast that Leo or Notion Thief
Harder to kill than any of them
Is Blue unlike SpiritIt's very much a confluence of things. I suspect if Spirit of the Labyrinth was blue this conversation would have been happening a while ago.
-
Narset is one sided. Labyrinth shuts off your draws too. So whether Labyrinth is blue or white doesn’t change anything. Heck, if Labyrinth was blue it may never have been played. Or Dack would have been played right along side of it as a 4-of to Hymn your opponent.
