[WAR] Karn the great creator

Generic hatebears are still bad because there are still fundamental issues of lack of true synergy, and no good 1 drops in Vintage.

Then Survival, Ravager, and Eldrazi don’t have enough disruption.

There really needs to be almost a totally new deck brewed. The Jund builds are interesting shells to work out of.

Man, I really think predicting anything right now is a bad idea. Even saying out loud what the meta will look like is a leap of faith. I'm excited for the new tools in MH1 like Shenanigans, Ouphe, FoV, etc, and for the new mulligan exactly because it's nigh unpredictable to actually understand what the format will look like for EW (or even NYSE).

@fsecco said in [WAR] Karn the great creator:

Man, I really think predicting anything right now is a bad idea. Even saying out loud what the meta will look like is a leap of faith. I'm excited for the new tools in MH1 like Shenanigans, Ouphe, FoV, etc, and for the new mulligan exactly because it's nigh unpredictable to actually understand what the format will look like for EW (or even NYSE).

At some point we have to stop waiting for formats to settle and be able to judge them for what they are at any given point. I recognize that this year has been particularly overwhelming with releases and rules updates and that will not change likely until after m20, but bluntly even when we are on a typical 3 month set release cycle here is how discussion goes:

  • Set release
  • Month 1 - "The cards were just released, everyone should calm down about this or that being too strong because we have not even tried all the cards yet"
  • Month 2 - "The Meta has barely had time to work itself out, lets see 2-3 more weeks of tourney results and MAJOR EVENT X to take place"
  • Month 3 - "Yes these cards could be too strong but a new set is right around the corner and we cant just change these things because WOTC may have fixed it in this release and we may get new cards to shake up the meta."
  • Repeat

Some times we just have to use heuristics and available data because that is what we have at our disposal.

@protoaddict said in [WAR] Karn the great creator:

At some point we have to stop waiting for formats to settle and be able to judge them for what they are at any given point.

I agree. But for that we should analyse actual metagame data and matchups and stop saying "Card X or Y will be restricted" or "deck X can't be answered" or "when card Z is released I'll quit Vintage because it will ruin the game" πŸ˜› πŸ˜› πŸ˜›

I don't usually say the format will look different. But this is a special time. We have 2 new cards that are settling as powerhouse in the 3 most prominent archetypes right now; we have a set that will release at LEAST 3 completely mind-blowing hate cards (Shenanigans, Ouphe and Force of Vigor) AND we have a new Mulligan that, different from Vancouver, actually heavily changes deckbuilding and gameplay. What we will live now is not far from what Duel Commander lived when they changed from 30 to 20 life. I like it, but this time we really can't know what'll happen - maybe it'll all balance out and stay the same as Vintage always did.

@protoaddict

It would actually be nice to have a few sets that aren't Vintage relevant to give us time to catch up.

@vaughnbros said in [WAR] Karn the great creator:

@protoaddict

It would actually be nice to have a few sets that aren't Vintage relevant to give us time to catch up.

hahaaha we actually complain about those too.

@fsecco

I mean, they can always throw in a few nice dredge cards πŸ˜‰

@nedleeds

FYI, the next time you say "Restrict Derpstep" I'm just going to reply, we can never restrict cards that are beatable and you can always beat Derpstep by either avoiding Derpfest TM or Derping so hard, your a-hole friends randomly keep sending you a 12 card deep stack battle of Derptitude, and you scream "im no owned! im not owned!" as Dack resolves through Pyroblast, Derpes, Mana Drain, and Forces, and you slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob.

Just fair warning, based on the flawless logic presented in this thread.

@chubbyrain said in [WAR] Karn the great creator:

@nedleeds

FYI, the next time you say "Restrict Derpstep" I'm just going to reply, we can never restrict cards that are beatable and you can always beat Derpstep by either avoiding Derpfest TM or Derping so hard, your a-hole friends randomly keep sending you a 12 card deep stack battle of Derptitude, and you scream "im no owned! im not owned!" as Dack resolves through Pyroblast, Derpes, Mana Drain, and Forces, and you slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob.

Just fair warning, based on the flawless logic presented in this thread.

Lol, you had me at Derpes. I wasn't even bitching about Skillstep in this thread. But these Walkers haven't made it anymore interesting. My take is with 1 Skillstep, blue players wouldn't be as likely to tap out for Dackset. The threat of REB, Pierce, etc. would be more real. But with 4 Skillstep you can tap out with impunity and win the Skillwar over the 1 CMC answer. I also think between Bazaar and these insane walkers the world could really used resolved Pithing Needle. Misstep speeds things up so much by encouraging a tap out, having to protect with mana might make for more interesting baiting and interaction. But who knows, full disclosure I haven't played since War since I couldn't make SCGCON.

I've been hearing this everywhere and man, I really think I'm missing something. Do you guys really think Pithing Needle is an answer to Narset/Karn? Because I think it's very, very subpar.

I was talking the other day with a friend and noticing Xerox got a bunch of tools and we came to the conclusion that Delver is probably good in the format again and that Xerox could use it to great effect. Was happy to see that the 3rd place list from SCG Con had 4 Delvers, so I guess we were right πŸ™‚

last edited by fsecco
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