Oh Boy I Can't Wait For VSL Season 5!
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MTG junkies unite! Here's the thread for random backseat critiques, absurd prop bets, or wishing our Mana Drain representatives the best of luck in the upcoming season of the Vintage Super League. Get 'em boys!
What do we think everyone will be playing week one?
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I hope we can get some more Vintage community representatives into the full season instead of more pros who dabble occasionally. As for decks, I hope to see more archetypes represented than VSL's usual Mentor/Shops/Storm Metagame such as Oath and Painter.
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Is this the thread for the betting pool of what card the league campaigns for restriction this season?
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@Winterstar You have come to the right place my friend.
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@Winterstar said:
Is this the thread for the betting pool of what card the league campaigns for restriction this season?
Itll probably be dark petition, it seems likely that a bunch of vintage dilettantes will find a way to bitch and moan about it. Rich Shay and Steve Menendian are excluded from that statement.
I mean, I know the community here is eagerly awaiting g Sam Black's opinion of the format.
Don't trust your secrets to the sea.
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@rikter Cards I've heard calls to restrict today: Monastery Mentor, Sylvan Library, Gush, Dark Petition.
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Am I the only one who was kinda hoping that the wotc pro player money snafoo would mean that many of the pro names on the list who arent big vintage players would quit in protest and we would get more actual vintage players involved? I get that the big names help with getting vintage out to a wider audience, but still, I would rather see vintage players playing the decks theyve been playing for decades than pros claim the format is a die roll and that there are only 3 decks to play.
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@L0cke17 I'm really hoping that the Vintage players will start mopping up. I'm really rooting for Steve and Rich, and now Andy and Brian Kelley. Just imagine if that were the final 4. That would be some sweet rub-ins. (I will say that I really think there are some players we don't think of as Vintage dudes who have really taken to the format though. Efro and LSV specifically seem to really take it seriously and study and respect the format... but too bad for them. I hope folks actually on the mana drain just grind them into the dust this year!)
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@Winterstar According to the VSL, Dark Petition Storm was "clearly the best deck of the format" even before its main predator was weakened by the restriction of Golem. So I think Dark Petition is a very safe bet.
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@Winterstar said:
Is this the thread for the betting pool of what card the league campaigns for restriction this season?
Maybe Sphere of Resistance or Wasteland?
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@joshuabrooks Yes! Wasteland!... it's so unfun. Other unfun cards: Stifle, Ghostquarter... heck I don't really like playing against Dredge either, so lets restrict each of the cards that show up in that thing. I'm in. Also Hatebear, restrict Thalia for sure.
But seriously folks... what do we think that Andy and Brian Kelley are playing this week. Lets starts some rumors that could help them out. (Psssst... I heard that Sullivan Brophy's been brought in as a dredge guru and they're both going all in on the most bizarre deck in the format... shhh don't tell anyone.)
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Yay. Another whine thread filled with half baked tin foil hat conspiracies and salt.
I look forward to watching LSV play (crush?).
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@socialite I'm missing something. I've definitely heard some absurd VSL conspiracy theories but I'm not seeing any in this thread. Did you read this thread or just the title? What, specifically are you referring to? Are you arguing that they didn't very publicly campaign for cards to be restricted last VSL season?
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@Brass-Man said:
@socialite Are you arguing that they didn't very publicly campaign for cards to be restricted last VSL season?
The implication that it was a "campaign" feeds into my point.
Were some players vocal about their displeasure and lack of "fun"? Absolutely.
Do said players have near the amount of influence as implied by individuals on this forum? Probably not.
There's plenty of familiar satire in this thread at the current time, consider my post a preemption.
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@socialite Fair enough, if you're reading "campaign" as a organized, clandestine effort, I totally get your response. I think you're underestimating the amount of influence these players have, but that's fine. Probably a minor point to disagree on.
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Pretty tempting to start just the tiniest bit of trolling on this thread... sadly, my trolling is considered "unfun", and has been restricted to 1 out of every 60 days... I already used up my quota.
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@socialite said:
Yay. Another whine thread filled with half baked tin foil hat conspiracies and salt.
I look forward to watching LSV play (crush?).
Since this was likely directed at me, I'll make a short response, and then I expect to not bring the Lodestone subject up on TMD again. If nothing else, it will spare you the effort of having to post your tin foil hat picture a third time.
I personally am not that angry about the DCI decision, but I am upset about the amount of influence a few pros had. Did they wage a campaign? I think for all practical purposes, yes (though I have no desire to start a ten page debate defining what a "campaign" is). Was it an organized secret effort, I doubt it. But there was quite a pile-on once it started.
I would say that multiple high profile Tweets, constant anti-shops chatter during commentary (during VSL and Champs), and excessive initiation of the topic of restrictions regarding Shops (often unprompted), would be hard pressed to be defined as anything other than at least a personal campaign. Or vendetta. Choose either.
Are the pros right? Perhaps. Who knows? There are hundreds of different ways to argue it, and we still have no definition of what constitutes a restriction, or even what a proper Vintage meta-game should entail.
I mentioned earlier that I am not that angry. Do I like the restriction? No. But we live in a world where the influential and connected people often get their way. Sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. Magic is no different. Doesn't mean I (we) have to like it. And I doubt that anyone who plays anything other than the objectively "best deck" in every tournament, would feel any other way.
I'm ready to move on. My comment in this thread was a joke, as indicated with a smiley face. I'm looking forward to VSL this year. For one, I am super stoked about some fresh blood and perhaps some new deck constructions. It's always enjoyable to see professionals play a deck and use lines I might not otherwise see. At the very least I'll be satisfied to not hear anti-shops rhetoric every time shops is played.
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It wasn't directed at anyone really. Even the title is a bit tilted.
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Sardonic responses don't always come across terribly well in text.
My response was a bit tongue-in-cheek while winking at the elephant in the room.
I thoroughly enjoy the VSL. Most of the games are enjoyable and most of the commentary is enjoyable (like most, I certainly have my preferences).
At the same time, to paraphrase from Steve's fantastic article on The Deck- players lobbying for the restriction/banning of certain cards is as old as the DCI. I even remember Randy joking about "are we trying to get ____ card restricted this season" in acknowledgement of that perception. He was likely mocking the notion that the VSL had that sort of influence, which came into focus following his rather vocal dislike of Chalice of the Void (especially during the Eternal Weekend coverage) and its subsequent restriction.
I'm of two minds on it.
One one hand, the DCI also restricted Dig Through Time at the same time as the Chalice restriction, and there was absolutely no chatter on in on the VSL, and one can be certain that the DCI does not solely consider the opinions of pro-players when it comes to the restrictions in Vintage. Thus winking at the elephant.
On the other hand, I think that the VSL does serve as a very wide-reaching platform for the format and as such it can impact perceptions of cards and the health of the format.
I also, as stated in other threads littered through the site, fall in the "as few restrictions as possible" and the "let the metagame adjust" camp. The lodestone restriction was not as welcome with me for those reasons (I think more time between the Chalice and Lodestone restrictions should have passed.)
Thus, I balance my enthusiasm for the VSL with the vague thought that I hope they realize that their voice carries weight.
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@Winterstar I agree with every word you said in that post. You arranged those words far better than I could have. Well said.
