Help with Hulk Dredge
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Recently there has been a strong rise in Pitch Dredge decks, such as @The-Atog-Lord 's list with 20 blue cards and an anti-hate sideboard. With the help of @ajfirecracker I have been exploring and experimenting with a different take on Pitch Dredge. I call it Pitch Hulk or Hulk Dredge.
What Makes This Special:
My current list and original list can be found here.In my opinion what sets it apart from other Dredge lists is the consistency and power of the sideboard. It is a black and green Pitch Dredge list that relies on the power of Vintage staples such as Molderhulk, Ghoultree
and Hollow One. This decks power lies in the fact that it only needs to resolve one or two threats to win. As you can see, the aforementioned cards are immense creatures that are either free or steeply discounted because of this deck.
The post-sideboard plan is to draw between one and three threats and then get the lands necessary to play them. Often this means dredging anywhere from five to twenty cards to hit cards like Dakmor Salvage, Riftstone Portal and enough creatures to cheaply cast your creatures.Card Choices:
Molderhulk: This card is an okay Dread Return target, and gets instant value upon hitting the board. It is also easily castable without an exiled graveyard.Ghoultree: This card is the true hulk in the deck, as it is big and dumb. Casting a one mana 10/10 feels sweet, and with a lack of Swords to Plowshares in the meta, it tends to stick.
Blooghast: While I agree in the notion that this card is often a worse Ichorid, this cards value in this deck is not in game one. Often game one you will not need to get any back, and it does not contribute significantly to the clock. I believe this cards has its place in the deck because of the post-sideboard game. The sheer number of lands in this deck, and the consistency at which you are able to make land drops leads me to believe that it is better than Ichorid in this deck. Additionally Ichorid is half a turn slower (which can be quite important if you are trying to race Cage or Priest) and it eats creatures in your graveyard which is not something you normally want to do in this deck.
Dakmor Salvage: Honestly one of the most important cards in the deck. It increases our dredge consistency, allows us to slow dredge if needed and helps us consistently make land drops for Blooghast or to work our way up to casting something. Combined with Riftstone Portal and a Bazaar it allows us to reliably cast a Molderhulk turn 3 provided enough creatures in the graveyard.
Strengths:
Higher chance of winning through a resolved Containment Priest or Grafdigger's Cage.
Not as dependent on the graveyard as other sideboard strategies.
Consistent
Could take opponents by surprise
Quick clock
Has free counter-spellsWeaknesses:
Weak to Leyline of the Void (although not as much as other sideboard strategies)
Can be weak to go-wide strategies
Can be weak to Swords to Plowshares type effects (although a 6 or 10 point life swing is pretty big)Reason For This Post:
Since I am not on MODO, I am unable to consistently test and tune this deck-list with other people. I am making this post because I sincerely believe that it could be very strong both in the current meta-game and in the future. I want, and need help from the community in tuning, refining and overall improving the deck-list.Questions and Changes
Blooming March, Llanowar Wastes or Bayou could replace Mana Confluence potentially.I am very unsure if the correct number of Bloodghasts is 4. I have a feeling 2 or 3 would be fine.
Golgari Thug could be interesting as he is an easy to cast dredger with lots of value.
Call to the Netherworld, this card seems really weird, but I think that in this list it has potential. It is completely untested as I just found it, but the ability to turn on Force of Will for free at instant speed, return a dredger to hand before a one shot graveyard exile effect or return a killed or countered Molderhulk or similar creature seems really strong.
Dark Withering could be an interesting removal spell, but I am unsure if it provides enough value to be of use.
Thank you for reading this far! If you have any questions or comments please let me know. I really like brewing, and I am excited to try and improve this alternative approach to dredge!
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Bayou is a thing for BG lands
Your link requests access when I try to open it, might want to make sure anyone with the link can view
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@ajfirecracker Thanks. That was a pretty big oversight on my part
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I like Bayou over Confluence, btw. I think swapping for a BG land is a good suggestion
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Anybody else have any feedback, ideas or advice? I would be very happy to hear it!
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I've tried Hulk, but haven't gotten it to work well enough to run it consistently. Some things that I learned from it:
I think you should up the number of Rifstone Portals, 1 or 2 more should be fine. This gives you access to both BG off of Dakmor's out of the yard.
A 3rd and maybe 4th Dread Return as you want to be able to blow them on Molderhulks, and not have to save them for FKZ.
I'd consider adding utility lands + Loams if you can fit them (something simple like Cabal Pit + Strip mine). Volrath's Stronghold could also be nice as a way to recur Hulk (that's purely theoretical though). This gives Hulk more value, especially when under a Cage or Priestess.
I'd look at trimming some of the Traps/Missteps/Amalgams as 20 Blue cards is more than you really need for Force (I usually run 15 or 16 and am fine).
I'd cut the Tarmo + Hulk from the board. You need an out to Leyline in that sideboard as most of your board plan doesn't avoid the Exile effects.
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@vaughnbros What would you recommend be put in the board to avoid the exile effects like you recommended? I find it hard to fit everything in a cohesive package and add other things like that.
"Pitch Dredge is the worst thing to happen to Vintage this decade." - 2015 Vintage Champion Brian Kelly
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Nature's Claim, or Wispnare are the best.
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@vaughnbros I am aware of those cards, but they do not really fill the strategy that I want to use. If I use those, I feel like I might as well turn it into an anti-hate list.
"Pitch Dredge is the worst thing to happen to Vintage this decade." - 2015 Vintage Champion Brian Kelly
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My inclination (as I think Rat knows) is to accept that Leyline of the Void is good against you and rely on Hollow One when Leyline makes an appearance.
The only problem with this is that if a fatty-based sideboard becomes relatively popular I would expect a shift towards Leyline in response (since literally any deck can run it)
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Wispmare counts as a creature for your Hulk and Tree. If the goal is to build around these two cards, it seems to me that you'd want to maximize the number of creatures in your deck.
Why does countermagic fit in this build? Doesn't that reduce your creature count over something like anti-hate Chewer+Wispmares? Or some other creature based set up?
