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The So Many Insane Plays podcast pointed out that Karn was heavily played in Vintage but only as a sideboard card. I want to explore a Karn deck with him in the center of it.

4 Karn, Scion of Uzra
1 Lodestone Golem
3 Traxos, Scourge of Kroog
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Chief of the Foundry
4 Master of Etherium
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thoughtcast (maybe The Antiquities War or Force of Will?)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
5 moxes
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarimian Academy
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Workshop
6 Island

Sideboard is open for discuss but probably
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Hydroblast
I am not sure how to add it but Hurkyl's Recall needs to be in the sideboard. I added Sphere to hate on PO and Combo but Arcane Lab might be better.

I would like to discuss this deck and develop it.

last edited by moorebrother1

I am by no means discouraging you from brewing here, but this just feels like a weaker shops deck using a lot of shops tools. I cannot help but feel if you are going to take this the affinity route you have to adjust a lot of stuff in your list.

Also, no Mox Opal? For shame.

@protoaddct I am shamed, I missed the Mox Opal. I'll tweak it. I see your point but I have current Shops and this proxied up in paper and the head to head is very interesting.

Feels very vulnerable to Dack Fayden. Maybe do add those FoWs? But only 15 blue cards and no draw spells may not be enough.

Also, I think this misses Ballista. It's the one card that really put Shops over the edge.

EDIT: also, you got 61 cards there.

last edited by fsecco

I am not getting much of a reaction to the first post. So, let's go in a different direction.

This is the list from Waterbury where JP Kohler came in 5th place with this deck.

1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Pearl
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Repeal
2 Preordain
2 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
3 Flusterstorm
3 Thoughtcast
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Force of Will
4 Paradoxical Outcome
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Island
3 Seat of the Synod
Sideboard
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Balance
1 Echoing Truth
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ancient Tomb
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Hurkyl's Recall

I cut the black and went with White at SCG Con and came in 20th with this version.

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mana Vault (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Emerald (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Jet (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Pearl (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Ruby (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Sapphire (Restricted in Vintage)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Time Vault (Restricted in Vintage)
2 Voltaic Key

Artifact Creatures
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Creatures
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Snapcaster Mage

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Brain Freeze
1 Brainstorm (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Dig Through Time (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
1 Gush (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Paradoxical Outcome

Legendary Artifacts
2 Mox Opal

Legendary Creatures
1 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant

Legendary Planeswalkers
3 Karn, Scion of Urza

Sorceries
1 Balance (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Fragmentize
1 Merchant Scroll (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Ponder (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Time Walk (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Timetwister (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Tinker (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Treasure Cruise (Restricted in Vintage)

Basic Lands
3 Island

Lands
2 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria (Restricted in Vintage)
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy (Restricted in Vintage)

Sideboard:
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Fragmentize
1 Island

These decks are not as fast as PO storm, but they are consistent. I did not want to start here because this would be considered just another PO deck. My first iteration of the deck is not supposed to be a Shops deck. I am trying to make a Karn deck.

Maybe this just illustrates how hard it is to brew in Vintage. Is a PO style Karn better than a Shops style Karn deck?

If I were to build a solid Karn based deck in Vintage, I would start with:

4 Karn
4 Sai, Master Thoptist
4 PO
2-3 Skull clamp
Restricted Blue/Artifact stuff (tinkerbot/tv optional)

And go from there. Obv about infinite splashes after this point, but I'd use that as the core, and see what you have room for from there. Would be glad to discuss this tho. Keep this updated. Thanks!

@Serracollector @moorebrother1 I think you want maximum explosiveness, but I am not sure that 4 Karn and 4 Sai is optimal. You probably want maximum 3 of each. What kind of explosiveness you want though is up to you. You probably want Jar, Tinker and some number of Thoughtcast. I would not recommend the artifact lands with all the Null Rod effects though. Black is a really good splash for this deck with tutor effects for Academy. Maybe Experimental Frenzy would go well with Karn?

This is an old Tezzeret deck that @Smmenen posted. I think a Karn can play something like it

1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Black Lotus
2 Grim Monolith
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
2 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Time Vault
2 Voltaic Key
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
3 Spell Pierce
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Underground Sea
Sideboard
1 Echoing Truth
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Ravenous Trap
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Volcanic Island

Karn adds big immediate threats instead of fishing for Vault/Key. You can use Mana Drain in a deck like this. I was going with Aggro and I think raw combo is not fast enough. So may a control deck would work?

last edited by moorebrother1

There are 3 directions to take a Karn deck. There is the Shops deck, the Paradoxical Outcome deck and the Turbo Karn deck.

I will pursue all 3 of these but based on the current meta-game I see Turbo Karn doing the best because it will stand out. If I build a shop based deck or a PO based deck then those decks have all the weaknesses of the existing versions but not as many of the strengths.

I will put a Turbo Karn list together for discuss and see where that goes.

last edited by moorebrother1
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