Its also not a human. (right now at least) he doesn't have a tribe that is vintage playable for efficient use of Caverns.

And Cavern isn't thaaaaat vintage playable. Cavern is dubious, this new vedalken is below medium.

@khahan "Wizard" has to be one of the better tribes, right? Most of the best Humans are Wizards anyway, I'd thought.

@brass-man said in [RNA] Deputy of Detention:

@khahan "Wizard" has to be one of the better tribes, right? Most of the best Humans are Wizards anyway, I'd thought.

Very true, most wizards are human. But most humans played in vintage are not wizards. There absolutely could be a viable deck out there waiting to be built. But as of right now, it doesn't exist. Wizards as a tribe seems to fail at 2 things: a reasonable control aspect and a reasonable clock.
There are certainly some interesting wizards out there:
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is an obvoius one
Jushi Apprentice
Lighthouse Chronologist
Baral, Chief of Compliance
Lullmage Mentor
Magus of the Unseen
Martyr of Frost
Meddling Mage
Mistmeadow Witch
Nimble Obstructionist
Patron Wizard
Rayne, Academy Chancellor
Reflector Mage
Snapcaster Mage
Adeliz Cinderwind (ok, she can provide a pretty quick clock)
Goblin Electromancer
Grim Lavamancer
Izzet Guildmage
Jori En, ruin Diver
Magus of the Moon
Soul Scar Mage

This is not a complete list and has some very sketchy choices in it. But there are interesting wizards out there. I just dont think wizards is a tribe that in and of itself supports a deck like humans or goblins could (or even elves). However, there are certainly some very playable wizards that supplement other decks.

@khahan There's also Vendilion Clique, Trinket Mage, Dark Confidant and the ones not that playable like Venser, Magus of the Moat, Lab Maniac, Master of Waves, Sower of Temptation and Azami, Lady of Scrolls. I'm probably also forgetting a bunch, since there are a lot of Wizards out there.

And you have Vedalken Aethermage as a tutor of sorts, so that's something.

last edited by fsecco

@fsecco said in [RNA] Deputy of Detention:

@khahan There's also Vendilion Clique, Trinket Mage, Dark Confidant and the ones not that playable like Venser, Magus of the Moat, Lab Maniac, Master of Waves, Sower of Temptation and Azami, Lady of Scrolls. I'm probably also forgetting a bunch, since there are a lot of Wizards out there.

And you have Vedalken Aethermage as a tutor of sorts, so that's something.

Agreed, those are all good choices, some are even played now. But there still isn't a cohesive 'wizards tribe' deck out there for vintage. I think possibly something around Adeliz's ability may possibly be viable. She can pack quite the punch and on turn 3 with even 1 other wizard in play its not unreasonable to be swinging for hefty damage.

Turn 1: land, Mox Baral
Turn 2: Adeliz swing for 3
Turn 3: 3 cheap spells (lightning bolts, gush, time walk, ancestral, brainstorm, preordain) is not unreasonable depending on how construct your deck. Swing for 9

On turn 3 you've done 12 points of damage plus any fetches, missteps, probes etc

You just need a few cheap spells next turn and its a turn 4 aggro win. Not as good as shops and it folds to a walking ballista but its not without merit that a turn 4 kill is realistic.

The problem with a deck like this is you need enough cheap wizards to benefit from adeliz sufficiently. This cuts down on slots for instants/sorceries. Now to stay viable you are splitting the rest of slots between spells to play on your turn to pump adeliz and counter magic to keep sphere effects off the table and stop your opponent from comboing out.

Just dont think wizards has the components needed for tribal. I'd still relegate them to a support class.

@khahan Am I crazy to remember that at some point far in the past there was a wizards deck in vintage. I think it was vial biased with Cursecatcher, Meddling mage, and Delver. I think this was pre-Innistrad. Was that a fever dream?

@khahan I agree there isn't a tribal Wizards deck (Baral would be terrible in such a deck). But there's merit in the Wizards subtype, that's all I'm saying.

@protoaddct This depends on what qualifies as "a deck" to you. I know I've seen tribal wizards at tournaments before - I've seen Patron Wizard take someone apart more than once. I don't know that it's ever been successful on a wide enough scale to be considered a regular part of the global metagame, though.

Delver of Secrets is a wizard too right? Could do a deck with this, delvers and Snap Casters and Baral.

last edited by John Cox

@john-cox Is this card really worth building a deck for?

@fsecco No, its not a build around card. I could see it being a one of in a mentor/lavinia sideboard.

last edited by John Cox

How often in Vintage is this gonna hit more than 1 thing outside of Tokens? 2 sphere's maybe? But this seems very hard to cast through multiple sphere's, so idk what it would even be used for. Reflector Mage and Counterspell Spirit both seem better in the same colors, and better creature type. As well as Jailer already mentioned.

@serracollector said in [RNA] Deputy of Detention:

How often in Vintage is this gonna hit more than 1 thing outside of Tokens? 2 sphere's maybe? But this seems very hard to cast through multiple sphere's, so idk what it would even be used for. Reflector Mage and Counterspell Spirit both seem better in the same colors, and better creature type. As well as Jailer already mentioned.

You snag a sphere with until they drop a ballista and shoot it. Or they just attack thru and he dies blocking any creature in the deck that has received a counter from steel overseer. This card just has no place in vintage.

last edited by Khahan
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