Lavinia Humans
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I havent paid any attention to Non Pauper Formats for a while now. I was looking through the spoilers for the new set coming out and saw Lavinia, Azorius Renegade and immediately saw how broken it was in Vintage. I believe the card single handedly pushes Humans up in playability in the format. So I threw together a list in a few minutes and would like people's thoughts on the list. Granted I wont be able to test the list as I dont have the cards online.
Here is the list:
Mana (26):
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Mana Confluence
4 Wasteland
Strip Mine
Black Lotus
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
3 Noble HierarchCreatures (34):
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
3 Harsh Mentor
3 Meddling Mage
1 Containment Priest
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Reflector Mage
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Manic VandalSideboard:
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Containment Priest
3 Manic Vandal
2 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Meddling Mage
1 Aegis of the GodsI believe the combination of Lavinia, Thalia, Kambal, Scab Clan, Revoker and Meddling Mage means Outcome decks should be beatable. Workshops seems like it is bearable with all your prison aspects. Dredge even gets hit by Lavinia which is absurd! What are everyone's thoughts on my brew?
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@msg67183 I don't know. For some reason I feel Lavinia slots best into normal big blue control decks but it'll be interesting to see how things pan out : )
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@kistrand oh of course, it's a one sided Chalice of the Void with additional effects. It actually makes Outcome even better in the sense that if you drop it turn one against Shops, they cant Sphere you turn one, giving you a second turn to kill them. This card is absolutely absurd!
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That decks just scoops to Shops. You need at least 10 sideboard cards against Shops with that maindeck. I think everyone is getting over excited about Lavinia right now. Let's see what's left of the hype when the dust settles.
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This is not the way to go. You need zero dead cards vs Shops in main deck (Lavinia can be the exception but she can still pitch to FOW and still deny moxen) while also maintaining a deck that beats PO. I have cut Thalia and Misstep from main deck. You underestimate the power of Lords. I run 4 Mayor and 4 Thalia's Luitenant. Vithian Renegades is better than vandal.
You probably want Crypt instead of Cage in SB. With the lords and a Crypt plan it will be hard for the dredge player to get rid of priest.
Look into Stern Proctor (anti tinker, tempo vs shops, tempo vs oath, out vs omni) to make Force of Will runnable. Full Meddling Mage, Full Lavinia, ...)
Reflector Mage is solid, but I eventually cut it. To be honest all I care about is to maximize chances to win versus workshop and PO in game 1.
This would be my approach.
// 5C Lord Humans
// 60 Maindeck
// 7 Artifact
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
3 Null Rod
1 Mox Jet/Lotus Petal?// 32 Creature
1 Breya, Etherium Shaper
4 Meddling Mage
3 Stern Proctor
2 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Champion of the Parish
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Magus of the Unseen
4 Lavinia Azorious Renegade
1 Vithian Renegades// 4 Instant
4 Force of Will// 17 Land
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Mana Confluence
1 Karakas
4 Tundra// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Artifact
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt// 8 Creature
SB: 4 Containment Priest
SB: 3 War Priest of Thune
SB: 2 Intrepid Hero// 3 Instant
SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap -
@guli
Very interesting approach. Cutting the strip package seems quite intriguing to be honest. How often would you be locked out of Breya due to Null Rod? Are there any other creatures you would consider for that spot? -
Thoughts on a copy or two of Anafenza the Foremost? The first ability is alright but the graveyard ability is obviously good against Dredge, but also good against Ravager and Hangarback Walker. Just a thought, I understand that the card isn't blue which isn't trivial, but it just seems better, you're also not going to have the minuscule circumstance of having your creature turned off by Null Rod.
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I like anafenza alot! I wouldnt mind running 2 of them, but i have no idea what to cut.... any ideas?
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@msg67183
Null Rod is to stop PO and some shop creatures. Breya is a 1 off with still 6 power even with null rod. You can bounce with Karakas and stern in grindy aggro mirrors. You can als bounce null rod if lethal dmg can be delivered.Feel free to tweak and improve.
Guli
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Any news on your deck list msg67183? How goes the testing?
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@guli
To be honest, I cant test any vintage ideas Haha. I'm just the brewer. I will say that I have made a few alterations to lists, but I'm not even sure i should try brewing for a format that i cannot play Haha. -
Ok, I'll bite. Here's a list I've been messing around with to try and abuse Lavinia:
Bant Humans
Lands (21):
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Strip Mine
3 WastelandArtifacts (5):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Lotus PetalEnchantments (3):
3 Stony SilenceCreatures (22):
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guaridan of Thraben
4 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
2 Ramunap Excavator
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Shalai, Voice of PlentyInstants (8):
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral RecallSorcery (1):
1 Time WalkSideboard
3 Containment Priest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ramunap Excavator
2 Runic Armasaur
2 Seeds of Innocence
3 Nature’s Claim
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Gaea’s CradleSideboard is still a work in progress but I like coupling her with Knight of the Reliquary to attempt to lock opponents off of playing spells.
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I played your list in a league on mtgo. I did not have Canopy and the third Ramunap. I played Gavony and Manglehorn instead.
I went 3-2 but in all honestly the last game in the last match was really not because of me or the deck design. I had a good opener and was on my way to winning but I drew mana source after mana source for a literally the entire duration of that game.
The deck did what it does very well when drawing the right combination of cards. Knight lines with Lavinia are super strong. A very nice prison deck. Ramunap/Waste also is very nice with Lavinia.
Based on the amount of creatures I faced, I would play Tabernacle+Cradle main deck. Even those Pyromancer decks which are more popular again have a hard time against it. It works against almost all the tier 1 decks except for PO (and even there it does splash damage against Mentor).
Some form of filtering would be welcome. Dack is off color and I would not want to mess up your mana base. Could cut 1 Stony and 1 Thalia (or move to SB) to get at least 2 slots for something like Smuggler or JvP?
I am not the hottest streamer, but I do love to stream Human decks. If you are interested you can watch these games and many more on twitch or my youtube channel (there is a link in my twitch channel to the youtube archive)
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And this is my current version with the Lords:
// 60 Maindeck
// 6 Artifact
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Null Rod
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus// 35 Creature
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ramunap Excavator
4 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Containment Priest// 19 Land
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Mana Confluence
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine// 15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 3 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Trygon Predator
SB: 1 Ramunap Excavator
SB: 1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 4 Mental Misstep -
@guli this seems so much different than your other lists, why the change?
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Yes, it is an attempt to play revokers and Knot's with the colorless mana. Basically the idea is to play Revoker on ravager or ballista but also able to shut off noble/drs/planeswalkers. Just more threats you know. You are spending the 2 mana anyway, and with Thalia in the deck as well, revoker can be cast easier. I still kept some null rod and added chalice. Chalice for 1 is really strong in combination with Lavinia in this deck.
@Stormanimagus
By the way, I just got a 4-1 with Bant Prison Humans. I streamed it. I was 4-0 until the last match and last game. Opponent had a crazy unbeatable hand in game 3 so nothing I could do there. Deck is really not bad at all.Cheers,
Guli
https://www.twitch.tv/idsurv -
@Guli What about a Bant Survial version? You would need to cut down on the copies of a lot of cards, but it would be more explosive and cut the need for the eldrazi. I think it would still be a prison deck, but just have more consistency and power. I was thinking something like this:
Survival Engine (20):
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Vengevine
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Hollow OneSurvival Value (2):
1 Wonder
1 Squee, Goblin NabobArtifact Mana (4):
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black LotusNon-Creature Disruption (3):
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Stony SilenceBlue (2):
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time WalkCreatures (12):
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Trygon Predator
1 Phantasmal Image
2 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Knight of the ReliquarySpecial Lands (6):
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 KarakasMana (13):
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 ForestSB (15):
3 Containment Priest
1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Trygone Predator
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Stony Silence
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Energy Flux
1 Nature's Claim -
@rat3de
This can work actually. But it is a variant of Survival.dec I don't know if this is really on topic anymore
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After testing various iterations with Lavinia my thoughts are that the card shines best in Prison Humans.
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I don't understand the inclination to put lavinia with other hatebear creatures. She is a hate bear that is good in normal blue decks by virtue of being asymmetrical, and she actively doesn't synergize with the best hatebear in Thalia 1.0.
