Paradoxical Outcome - Deckbuilding Primer
Discuss and brew in the comment section below!
caron last edited by
in my paradoxical shell I'm using a list with green, 2 managorger hydra instead of thinker for C. and it's quite good, you don't fear REB or dack and hydra grows really fast, try it..
Interesting! Do u cut white or black? Any other green cards? Silvan Library? I tried a PO Oath list for a while about a year ago and I know Andreas has been tinkering with one recently as well.
caron last edited by caron
I cut white, I play only 2 hydra and 1 abrupt In my main because my first strategy is win via tendrils, hydra is my second plan but usually you can cast it whenever it's possible, if it hit the board it will win alone in 2-3 turns depending on your opponent deck or your cantrips..
the rest of the green cards are in the sideboard, 2 nature's claim, 1 trygon, 1 abrupt and other utilities...
we are also thinking on a version with green sun zenith, runemap excavator and fastbond... but we don't have much time to test...
Hrishi last edited by Hrishi
Very nice article! Just a few comments, apologies if it sounds negative or anything. I truly enjoyed reading.
I'm not so sure that I'd classify Mentor to be part of the "shell"? While it's certainly one of the better win conditions out there, it seems to me that it's just that, a win condition (even if the most popular one), and not part of the required shell to make Paradoxical Outcome work! I'd be happy to discuss further if you disagree here.
My PO deck only runs 2 colours currently, and one advantage I've found is the increased mana stability in the face of denial. This has in turn caused my win conditions to turn into either Tinker or Tendrils.
Would Snapcaster make the cut to be part of the core decklist? I've found that whenever I try to make a PO-based deck, I like including Snapcasters and it's very hard to justify not including them.
babau last edited by
how many flusterstorm do you play main?
and how many erayo?
babau last edited by
my ub "shell"
have 2x flsuterstorm and 2x erayo me have cut mental misstep.
@hrishi I think at this point. If you arent playing mentor as a win condition that you are just playing an inferior win condition. Thus I classify it as a core part of current PO builds. With your definition of 'shell' i would agree that mentor isnt really part of the 'shell'
Two colors certainly has its upsides but cards are very easy to splash in this deck with as little as one dual land.
Snapcaster is one of the most powerful flex cards and I certainly believe it deserves consideration whenever you build a PO list.
@babau I play 0 flusterstorms and 0 mistep. I do not want any cards that are dead draws versus shops. I like to shy away from these very narrow spells.
Erayo is a fun of that I like to include. I cut a mystical in the Delve PO list for one at TMD 19. It was good but can be a little cute.
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@hrishi of note. I play a snapcaster in all my personal PO builds like the thoughtcast one mentioned in the article.
John Cox last edited by
Thanks for putting this together. I really like seeing Vintage content and its great to see it on SCG again.
Great authors like Matt Elias and Stephen Menendian (who I still follow) got me into vintage, and you now carry the torch.
Zieby last edited by
What is the general thought about Brain Freeze for Paradoxial Outcome decks.
I played Almost Blue for a long time and believe that PO is a natural fit for the deck now Gush is restricted.
Furthermore, I really liked the article, there is not enough content on the web in regards to vintage, so keep up the good work.
@zieby brain freeze is just an inferior win condition due to it being dead when you are stuck with it in your hand early. Cards like mentor, tinker, key provide meaningful value when in your opening hand. This is a reason I dislike tendrils.
Just got through the article, and thought it was extremely well-written and provided great insight. This bit was a nice touch, too:
"Explaining the power and usage of Gush would take an entire book."
Griselbrother last edited by
Yeah good article. One minor thing though: Merchant Scroll can't get Time Walk.
@griselbrother Yeah that one slipped thru editing and looks like even though it was pointed out SCG never fixed
Zieby last edited by
BF is not as dead as you might think.
It disrupts top deck tutors.
It pitches to FoW.
It feuls Y-win.
And when chained you dont require allot of storm to combo out.
BF should be paired with tormods crypt which is an easy draw with PO and therefore you are preboarded for dredge.
Mentor88 last edited by
the primer was super great to read!
i'm trying to play the deck even in legacy, i know is not good as it is in vintage, but it still have some potential imho.
btw i think that the deck need just few but powerful wincon, not more than 3 in total. this because u just want draw bunch of cards in order to protect your finishers.
volt+key and tendrils might be the best one: the first one because are both artifacts and can be bounced with PO and the second because once u go off means that u'll have so many spells to cast.
moorebrother1 last edited by
@mentor88 I made a version that kind of worked in Legacy with Candelabra, Key and Grim Monolith. It was still a High Tide deck but could go out using Outcome. My mistake was it still being mono-blue. It needed black for discard.