I recently played a couple leagues with 4 Once Upon a Time and 4 Sphinx of Foresight with 0 copies of Survival. Went 7-3. Felt decent. Might be better with a white splash for Lavinia (which also improves the FoWs) rather than the black for DRS and SB Leos.
Played a list with 3 OuaT, it felt pretty good. Honestly, before it the deck wasn't feeling good anymore. I had cut a Fow and 2 ouphe for it and the deck felt way more explosive.
I don't know about cutting survival without extra ajustment. OuaT may find bazaar, but if you rely too much on finding bazaar with it to be in the game, you're not in a favorable spot. Sometimes survival isn't great, but it's still the must-counter threat in fair matchups as it's always been.
Btw, how did sphynx perform? I felt OuaT gave the deck a lot of explosiveness, maybe your result was good more because of that change?
@gutocmtt I’ve tried Sphinx before too, and I like it to an extent. I think it’s much better in 4-5 mana dork builds obviously. It’s really cool with OUaT as well. You can cast it with the scry 3 on the stack for some really solid selection!
I am also trying out OuaT (4) and agree that it is xplosive.
Makes it a lot more common to get the "Good start hand" with BoB, x hollow, y vengevine and z rootwalla.
I also go without FoW (Like Myk´s decklist), since OuaT also help a lot to find the silver bullet bear.
I went down to only 3 survival What do you think?
@myk dont you miss a bit SB hate against dredge?
Merry X mas everyone
@mergalf it depends on what you are trying to accomplish (aka your list). Can you post it?
Btw, please refer to bazaar as bazaar, we actually had dark confidant in some lists, so it gets a bit confusing.
@GutoCmtt Trying to accomplish xplosive start as often as possible. Alternate a "silver bullet bear" turn 1 or 2. Using survival more as a mid game card.
No counter, since I expect more than one silver bullet often in reach (Bazaar, OuaT and survival)
I shal Refer to bazaar as bazaar
Here is my recent list
3 Survival of the Fittest
4 Hollow One
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Collector Ouphe
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Deafening Silence
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
2 Force of Vigor
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Once Upon a Time
1 Collector Ouphe
4 Ravenous Trap
1 Force of Vigor
4 Containment Priest
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sanctum Prelate
Something that I find interesting is Emry. You have to build the deck differently but there are some potential advantages to that. Emry mills you, which is good, but also allows you to cast Hollow Ones from the yard (for free even!) to help trigger VV.
Been trying this a little bit. 3-2’s mostly. But it’s fun. Anything it should have that I didn’t think of?
BlindTherapy last edited by
It looks a lot like hanChoBai's turbo vengevines decks. They look like but are very different than survival. This one has mana, emry, recall and timewalk (and serpent?) to cast with mana. I wonder if those cards are worth not going manaless.
Boogdish last edited by
Wfain, I count 13 1 toughness creatures in that deck and no maindeck Ouphe or Null Rod, so I'd try a skull clamp in there. How has Hope of Ghirapur been?
Also, if we're posting vengevine decks without Survival Of the Fittest in them, over the weekend I did two leagues and a vintage challenge with this deck and went 11-5 in matches. I'm still tinkering with it, there's probably an ideal list I haven't figured out yet.
wfain last edited by wfain
That seems cool! I think OUaT is just better than Serum Powder if you can actually cast the spell ever... it would also be interesting to consider some of my cards (Emry & Titan) in your list!
Hope was an inclusion for the last run, it did win a game against PO because they weren’t going to get to take the third turn where they normally storm off. Also fine in a pinch vs Dredge.
Boogdish, very interesting build. I agree that OuAt could be better in your deck? Then I would transform "null rod" to ouph, bring in an ekstra "force of vigor" and get rid of Mishras workshop.
Transforming to green: OuAT can find Bazaar of Bagdad, Ouph - can ditch to "force of vigor" and fuel Hogaak. That is a lot of functions for one card?
Zias last edited by
Maybe we need a Survival-less Survival thread.
Anyway, @Boogdish and I have been on a similar wavelength, apparently.
I 5-0ed earlier this week with this deck and 4-1'ed over a dozen times with similar builds over the last three weeks.
I've found the Stonecoils/Ballistas to be better than Memnite here, since they not only can be cast for at least twice the power for the same cost with Bridge in the graveyard, but are easier to scale into formidable threats on their own. I've been shooting down Deathrite Shamans with Ballista and closing out games quickly with Stonecoils when the graveyard plan fails (pro multicolor is huge vs Bug/Dack).
Maindeck Leyline has been very powerful in this metagame. Many decks, even the Xerox variants, rely heavily on the graveyard (e.g., Wrenn, Arcanist). Further, making it harder to remove the Bridges gives you resiliency against removal. I only side them out versus Outcome.
The sideboard still needs some work, but I'm sold on the Leyline of Sanctities. They not only deal with Trap/Crypt, but also Hurkyl's Recall, which lets you pivot harder into a prison deck against Outcomes/Combo. With the Bazaar/Squee engine, you can keep piling on the lockpieces against them.
The Wastelands and Ghost Quarters are primarily there for Shops/Dredge. They're also useful against Xerox variants, since they they help to cast threats when you need to dodge graveyard hate and also keep pressure on their manabase while you're chipping away.
Usually, I have one to two Crucibles in the board for the Shops matchups over some number of Quarters/Revokers, which I think is correct.
Boogdish last edited by
Nice looking list Zias! Another bonus of using the Ballista / Serpent over Memnite is it lets you chalice for zero without turning off a bunch of your own cards.
Wfain, Mergalf, I think I will try OUAT again, thanks.
I think the next idea I want to try out is a Tiny Robots / Hollow Vine mashup using [[Genesis Chamber]]and [[skull clamp]].
@boogdish While I'm generally in favor of anything Tiny Robots-adjacent, I think running a Genesis Chamber/Skullclamp package is going to end up being worse than having Null Rod in your deck. Would be happy to be proven wrong, though!
Cloud of Fairies for Clamp, and cool stuff with bazaar and academy, or too fun?