@chikararyuu
I actually fiddled with it a bit more to add a deputy of detention to get to 15. Cut Squee. I think 15 is fine since you’re only expecting to use the first FoW. After that it’s unlikely to be anything but discarded to Bazaar anyways.

last edited by wfain

I'm still torn between GUB and GUW. Bant provides a plethora of hatebears to spread throughout the MD and the SB. But BUG has Leovold, which is the best hate creature in the format (besides Ouphe, obviously).
Anyone have a preference between BUG and Bant? Or arguments regarding my assessment of the two?

Hey Mike have you tried Anger? I had some “recent success”(prior to the printing of Walking Ballista) with TNT. I thought it was amazing at the time but Ballista coming out made me not want to play it anymore.

https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13618&d=280171&f=VI

I suppose it shouldn’t be too bad though if you can shut down Ballista with Revoker and keep using your own Triskelions

last edited by desolutionist

I had a thought...

with mental misstep restricted, has there been any thought on porting over a setup of survival that got it banned in legacy years ago?

I do not know very much about legacy, but I did find an article about survival from years past by flores:

Link provided below:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/top-decks/survival-survival-survival-survival-2010-10-28

Looks like several survival approaches were used prior to the legacy banning:
(1) ooze survival (necrotic ooze, phyrexian devourer, triskelion/walking ballista)
(2) g/w survival
(3) u/g survival
(4) retainer survival

Is the contemporary approach (vengevine, hollow one, basking rootwalla chain) just a better option?

What about the current secondary modi operandi (1) hatebears plan (2) hogaak (3) control elements?

Would there be any merit to incorporating the former legacy plans (for reference, the banning occurred in 2010)?

My initial guess is that the printing of Hollow One (printed 2017) just outclasses the old technology, but I would love to hear the thoughts of others on the matter.

@chikararyuu
Yeah, I think you’ve got the handle on it. Having access to Bazaar and Hollow One makes the legacy combo stuff pretty pointless. In general though, the gw and ug versions feel a bit like the vintage version.

so I've been noticing that tangram's Survival list gave up countermagic (except for Mental Misstep) at this point.

https://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=31997&iddeck=276700

Are we aiming to just 'be the beatdown' now and give up trying to fight a counter war these days?

Pretty normal now it appears. Losing Misstep decreased the blue count for FoW in the overall tempo plan. Gaining Ouphe helped the combo matchup as well. Probably a mix of factors.

last edited by AeonSovarius

I think a mix of 3-4 Ouphe, 3-4 Deafening Silence in your 75 are better than Force of Will at fighting broken in SotF. Moving back to Thalia2CMC hurts vs. shops but she's not a complete brick if you have an Ouphe out.

I've played both approaches, fow and deafening silence. Silence seems better against combo, but having fow increases by a lot our blue matchup. Played the playoffs with BUG survival and got 4-2 (9th place -.-) , fow helped a lot more than FoV would have.

Seems like there are less combo out there and I don't think it's worth playing white for it. 4 Leovolds between maindeck and sb seemed pretty good too. Too much blue out there, and with fow leo is a house.

@gutocmtt

Daggers on 9th. But great work regardless!

Is there a typical sideboard plan against lands?

My guess is that the reason questing beast is in sideboards is for this match to combat glacial chasm, but what else needs to be considered?

@gutocmtt said in Survival:

I've played both approaches, fow and deafening silence. Silence seems better against combo, but having fow increases by a lot our blue matchup. Played the playoffs with BUG survival and got 4-2 (9th place -.-) , fow helped a lot more than FoV would have.

Seems like there are less combo out there and I don't think it's worth playing white for it. 4 Leovolds between maindeck and sb seemed pretty good too. Too much blue out there, and with fow leo is a house.

What are you commonly FoWing against fair blue / xerox? What are you pitching? Deafening Silence crimps Xerox pretty badly as well they can't chain cantrips. And fast Thalia is a beating against Xerox.

last edited by nedleeds

It depends a lot. Usually I want to use it to resolve my survival. If the battlefield is full, a PW is a pretty good target, if your hand is slow sometimes you can't beat an arcanist and the recalls are never bad targets for it either. With Leo to help getting an advantage and some flusterstorms (I play 2), summer veil and misstep you can change gears according to the situation.

The best results I get are with blue-heavy lists, as I can get slow them down and protect myself instead of having ouphe and FoV. I mean, I still have some of them in the deck, they just don't make it to games 2 and 3.

last edited by GutoCmtt

@gutocmtt

in the countermagic versions of survival, are there every any matchups where you want to sideboard out your countermagic and just go full throttle on the hatebear package?

I have considered the idea for the dredge matchup and the mirror, but not sure if that's a recommended approach.

I don't think I ever side out all my forces. Sometimes against dredge I side out some because of the hate overloading we need to win that matchup. Other than that, there are some matchups where flusterstorm comes out such as the mirror and shops (where I usually take out misstep though sometimes it's good for cage, sol ring and fow pitching).

There are some matchups where the green force is better obviously. But in those, fow isn't much worse, sometimes you just have to be patient with what to counter. It's a good feeling tô be in a commanding position and let some good spell which still doesn't take the game out of control resolve just to later counter a game-changing one with the counter you saved.

Finished 6-3 at Eternal Weekend with this list

4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Hollow One
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Vengevine
3 Collector Ouphe
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Wonder

4 Survival of the Fittest
3 Deafening Silence
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Force of Vigor
1 Time Walk

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs

4 Containment Priest
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Collector Ouphe
2 Energy Flux
2 Force of Vigor
1 Kataki, War's Rage
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Scavenging Ooze

Nice! That seems like a lot of ESG! How were they? Did you ever wish you had something else (PI and Hogaak come to mind)?

I played 3 ESG in place of the off color Moxen to help enable turn 1 Survival, Ouphe or Thalia. They also have the bonus of helping you work through your Survival chain if you're tight on land. I did want to try and fit other creatures in the deck, Containment Priest, Phantasmal Image, Knight of Autumn and Sanctum Prelate to be exact, in order to have bullets against particular matchups, but decided that the Deafening Silence and Force of Vigor handled them just as well and tended to be more game breaking. I actually put up a very quick write up in the tournament report thread.

last edited by myk
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