I've been trying -1 rootwalla +1 Manglethorn. Hasn't been terrible. I have 2 Ballistas in my list so that may be contributing.
I really like Manglethorn tough. Very rarely dead.
I'm going to try a very explosive list tomorrow with no Thalias.

@hierarchnoble I have played with dack fayden a bunch and I think a list mimicking Titan Oath and running some Deep Analysis as another pitchable spell that can refill the hand might work. Maybe in place of a bob or two tho I did not try dack with Bob's In the same list.

Md dack was almost always a nice draw vs a shops as my list had 4 Bop so making the missing red or blue was easier. Vs outcome if you could t2 steal a mana crypt/vault or sol ring that usually bought you a turn and makes casting hollow one easier in the later turns.

Edit: Also plays very nice with mb Leo. Having a survival countered but being able to have a back up soft lock came in handy a few times.

last edited by bleedth3sky

What do you all think of playing a City of Brass based mana suite? It would mean eschewing Wonder/Anger/DRS, but it would allow some different options on utility/hate dudes (Meddling Mage comes to mind). Something like 4 Mana Confluence, 4 Gemstone Mine, 2 City of Brass, 2 Reflecting Pool, 1 Cradle, 2 Forest, 4 Bazaar?
Edit: could also include Gemstone Caverns and Serum Powder to be more explosive and more consistent in our openers 🤷🏻♂
Another Edit: should we also be considering Thorn and Chalice?

last edited by wfain

I’m going to test Chalice and Thorn by shaving a mana dork and a Bob.

@wfain Definitely Chalice. It's tempo-neutral and we're often discarding non-Emerald Moxen to Bazaar of Baghdad in the mid-game. It'll give us a few blowout games against nearly any deck.

@hierarchnoble @wfain Do you think 2x Thalia 1x thorn split or bump to 3 Thalia?

I plan on sticking with fetch base but dropping cradle for another forest and dropping red for easier fetching game one. Should make it a bit more resilient vs wasteland as I've found myself never needing anger except vs oath.

Edit: Not missing red so far but thorn and chalice are both fantastic so far.

I went:
-1 taiga, +1 Trop; -1 Cradle, +1 Forest; -Anger, -Deathrite, + Chalice and Thorn.

last edited by bleedth3sky

@bleedth3sky I think 2-1 is better than 3-0. Thorn is easier to cast, and we can stack 2 effects sometimes rather than just 1 with Thalia. Another card I put in last night that I think is good is Dryad Arbor. Allows you do Survival for another green source, improves Cradle reliability, and can be pitched to Survival if you draw it late. I'm interested in what happens without needing red mana anywhere. I think I'd keep Squee, but then I would probably want a couple Nature's Claim in the board.

EDIT: I've updated the OP to reflect where I am now.

last edited by wfain

5-0 number three for me with Survival Salad! 2 wins vs RUG/Titania Outcome, 1 vs Dredge, UR Twin, and Grixis Tinker (which might've had Outcome, G1 I played Thalia, Goyf, Hollow, and VV on turn 1, he scooped, G2 he played Time Walk on 1 into Tinker/Bot, G3 I had Stony on 1, SotF on 3 and killed him on 5 through Strip Mine, Mana Drain, and JTMS). Posting list below, will also update OP.

0_1527787168994_survivalsalad.JPG

I love this thread and it looks like an awesome deck @wfain . I can't wait to take it for a spin. It's rare that a vintage deck requires someone to grab a bunch of cards they have never owned before, so well done!

Now take this one step further and figure out how to resurrect TNT and take us to the promised land 😉

@joshuabrooks I legitimately don’t know what TNT is? Some kind of Tooth and Nail deck or no?

@wfain said in Survival Salad:

@joshuabrooks I legitimately don’t know what TNT is? Some kind of Tooth and Nail deck or no?

And old deck from 2003/2004? Nicknamed from Tools N' Tubbies.

Used:
Workshop
Goblin Welder
Memory Jar
Triskelion
Su-Chi
Juggernaut
Survival of the Fittest/Anger/Wonder/Squee

And some variants included Pyrostatic Pillar, Blood Moon, etc. Was an amazingly fun deck to play.

last edited by joshuabrooks

@joshuabrooks I played a rug Tnt and man is it fun but you make your workshop match up so bad by relying on welder now that they have ballista. I just can't imagine a world where ravaged shops is around and a colored shops could compete. I would be more inclined to try 5c Stax rather than Tnt.

Streamed my final Survival stream (for now) here. I went 4-1, losing to Workshops but beating Oath, Esper Humans Control, Team Leovold and Esper PO. I played Kinny's 5-0 deck that hasn't been posted yet, messing with the fetchlands and making the Forest snow-covered to make mine "different". The deck felt phenomenal all night, and had at least two plays that are really worth watching for. I got probably my best opener in any game ever against PO on the play game 1.

I may still stop by from time to time, but for now I'm going to take some time off and play other decks to allow my Survival playing to rest. Maybe time away from the deck will improve my lines when I revisit it.

@hierarchnoble I’ll watch (if there is a replay) after the NBA Finals tonight!

@wfain Yup, replay link is in the post!

I decided to try limiting myself to only 3 colors and see where that took me in some different builds. My first attempt was RUG. These are the results:

0_1527865419452_rugsurvival.JPG

I only played one practice match vs Dredge (I won). This has a very interesting line in it where you can pitch Anger to grab Lumberjack, play it with haste and eat a Forest for GGG to use 3 more Survival activations (especially good if you cast him off Mox Ruby!) It only nets you 1 G mana (unless you had the Ruby) but it nets you and extra discard which could allow for an extra 4 damage!

I'll add other 3 color experimental versions later on!

last edited by wfain

@wfain I was thinking about trimming colors also, but am more interested in getting rid of red. the splash is pretty light and seems mostly replaceable. Anger has been okay at rebuilding against control decks and in theory is a way to battle oath decks, but in practice it might not come up enough to be justified. Against control they can often interact with the GY with deathrite or rest in peace, or you just don't need that effect too much. Against oath you're probably just going to lose to a resolved Oath regardless and i'm more willing than most to just kinda punt that matchup.

the benefit of going without red would be that you have more stable mana against wastelands, easier decisions fetching, and another utility slot in the deck. I'd like to fit in another fast mana (spirit guide 2 most likely) and lean on kambal and thalia harder.

that RUG list looks real spicy though! lumberjack is a sweet card and is that edric hiding in the corner?? love it! I am real interested in hearing about all those 1-ofs and how they perform after more matches. Dack, Ooze, Scryb ranger, green sun all are real interesting. My fear is that giving up on the hatebears is going to really cost you against PO which seems to be everywhere.

@kaluma I don’t really expect it to be better, just wanted to explore the options.

@kaluma so if we remove Anger and Taiga (and Ingot Chewer from the board)- we add Savannah and Kambal to the main, and another Decay to the board? Maybe change Ruby to another ESG as well?
That makes us a little better vs Outcome and Storm in G1 and gives us another way to kill Cages, Priests, RiPs, Oaths, and Mentors.

last edited by wfain

@wfain that is exactly what i'm going to try, except maybe nature's claim instead of decay.

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