I've got an update for you all! There should be created a different topic for the BUG version, which goldfish is calling BUGR
PS.: just a little help for those who like me were not finding kaluma's results in goldfish.
I was actually planning to update the OP with the various routes one can take when building, starting from the initial 20+power+lands position.
@wfain That sounds nice. It can get confusing for someone that's just joining the thread, as we are usually discussing one list at a time. I think the spotlights should definitely be at the newest build that has potential (BUG).
That being said, there are 2 things I keep asking myself about the list I'm running (with grudges and no counters). Are the mana sources on it excessive? It's funny, because I hardly feel flooded G1, and I side out some mana in G2 against almost every deck (except shops), and I hardly get mana screwed. Maybe that's the right way, but sounds unoptimal. Is anyone here playing it? I'd like some insights, maybe take out a mox and put a containment priest MD to search for against dredge and oath.
Also, I love rav. trap against dredge AND against unexperienced survival players. But with survival, there's how to get around it. I'm thinking about running tormod's crypt, which also we can cast before thalia gets in and tax it too, and as we usually bazaar on our turn, I don't think that's a bad idea. The only downside is that people see it comming and can even blow it. But I don't feel like rav. trap is great when people expect it (like it should, as it's a trap).
The list is the following:
@gutocmtt I think you want Stony over Null Rod. As for the mana part, I do that too. Basic Forest comes out often. I would recommend possibly one or two changes to that 75, but in general I think the plan is solid.
@wfain I think stony silence is an issue in a 4 color deck with splash for the 5th color. Null rod doesn't require me to fetch for savannah, and leave me relying less on not getting wasted against shops (which I don't bring any white cards against, with null rod). I get that null rod is bad against hurkyl, but repeal is getting me way more times than hurkyl and also the matchup isn't bad for this deck.
Oh and one thing I forgot: ESG is nice for survival loops to get more discard to play hollow ones, and in general to be one extra activation or even get someone playing ancient grudge with no mana open. But there are a lot of times where it's just a one-shot colorless mana. I think I'll cut one for the containment priest and use tormod's instead of ravenous trap.
So looking over the matches i've played, some interesting observations about the online meta:
24% of matches against PO - huge number of these decks showing up. I like the FoW version best against this deck, grudge version second best. Bant/non-red versions leaning on stony or rods feel weak to counters, tinker, mentor without a great plan against those things.
11% of matches against the mirror - interesting development that is only a little bit skewed by playing Kinny twice just now. Have a good plan for the mirror!! again I like the FoW version here, but mostly bc of DRS and the ability to fight opposing DRS's on the stack with misstep. I'm 8-1 against the mirror right now, but that's probably a little unsustainable.
9% of matches against oath - been slightly positive here, but is definitely a hard matchup.
9% of matches against shops - this might be more popular in paper/ challenges than leagues? I really feel like PO has hated shops out to a large degree. Seeing shops ~once every two leagues means i'm okay not devoting SB slots to hard shops hate.
~25% assorted blue decks (non-PO, oath) - this ranges from highly favored to fairly tricky depending how many DRS they play, their SB options, the number of FoWs they draw compared to your survivals etc. Usually you have inevitability, except when facing DRS.
wfain last edited by wfain
@kaluma so it sounds like figuring out how to play FoW and Grudge is the way to go? And having access to a Savannah for SB Priest seems important? Thoughts?
kaluma last edited by kaluma
@wfain i don't think you need to be in white just for grave-hate. Stretching the mana to 4 colors + FoW comes at the cost of going from 4 DRS to 3 DRS. I tried it for a league and the grudge never really came up as good or bad, so TBD.
edit - seeing the picture now. list definitely looks playable. still don't think priest is worth splashing for. priest/thalia/stony is a compelling reason, but not compatible with FoW. I like deep analysis as an idea. I think you do want squee maindeck - over pearl?
@kaluma Yeah, if I cut Priest and Savannah. I’d go Squee and a fetch in the main. Another Grudge in the board perhaps? Maybe then add 2 Ravenous Traps on top of the Leylines?
Is the survival player in the top 8 in Pittsburgh anyone here?
I don't think so. I made top 16 on BUG force of will survival
John Cox last edited by John Cox
I would love to see them take it all. Them or @The-Atog-Lord, he deserves it by now.
@john-cox if my crazy brew from the beginning of the summer wins both Asia and US Eternal Weekend I’ll feel like my MtG career has been vindicated
@wfain I think you will have accomplished alot even if your brew has only won one big championship.
@neo_altoid congrats! Would love to see a write up and decklist!
I finished 7-3 for 38th place at Champs. I lost vs shops in the last round when I punted several times including missing the win on board in game one. My brain was completely gone after a long day but it was a good run for me. I loved my deck and I’d change only -1 Kataki, +1 Trygon Predator in the board. I’ll write up a bit more later.
Report, while it's still fresh. Props to @kaluma for the deck, I felt damn near unbeatable for most of the day. My Jeskai sideboard of 2x decay+squee was great. my shops sideboard was irrelevant (I won via normal survival things, not anything else), and my dredge hate was dredge hate.
R1 Storm. G1 I break his soul by flusterstorm on Tinker, after leading windswept heath pass.
G2 I assemble drs+leovold+countermagic. he gets clocked and dies after trying and failing with macro.
R2, lose G1 to blind revoker on lotus, win game 2 to assembling the bash bros, then winning a drawn out affair where I had to beat a traxos via phantasmal image, then lose game 3 to revoker on lotus
r3, I smash Jeskai with "here is survival, are you dead?". game 2 was a more buffoony affair where hardcast trygon predator and wonder win the game right through rest in peace.
r4, smashed landstill. felt like I won 3 games, as bazaar and survival donked him. But I did lose g2 having taken some hits while finding abrupt decay for containment priest, and getting fiery confluenced for 6.
r5 smashed Jeskai. g1 played sylvan library. it found me 3 survival. the 3rd stuck and killed my opponent.
g2, it's a more drawn out affair, but I basically win by trygon eating his hate, then pooping out vengevines.
r6 beat dredge. He mulled to 1 g1, and I had double leyline ancestral in game 2.
r7 lost to blood moons. lost g1 to "surprise you're dead" won g2 off forest jet decay blood moon, lost g3 to emerald sapphire recall...find 0 mana sources, null rod dead.
r8 beat shops, lost g1 to trinisphere, had fast trygon predator games 2/3 and he carried me home.
r9 beat grixis control. g1, I have a bug fish hand. DRS, Leovold, misstep bolt on leo, stick survival, ballgame.
g2, I open bazaar, hollow one hollow one against his library. I force his dack fayden on 3 with flusterstorm backup, then rip walk to put him to 0 instantly.
r10, I battle shops, g1 have this awkward moment where I've survival'd, forced a couple things, but now our opponent has revokered survival and has larger monsters. fortunately, I have DRS and burn her out for the win.
g2 she opens on sphere. I bazaar, vv+rootwalla (pitching esg to cast rootwalla) hollow one, and 2x hollow one the next turn and easily win.
My deck was from my last post:
20 core survival
1 phantasmal image
1 sylvan library
1 treasure Cruise
4 Emerald, Jet, Sapphire, Lotus