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    • R
      Rat3dE last edited by

      @neo_altoid @kaluma What would you say your hardest match-ups are? Both pre and post board.

      "Pitch Dredge is the worst thing to happen to Vintage this decade." - 2015 Vintage Champion Brian Kelly

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      • kaluma
        kaluma @Rat3dE last edited by

        @rat3de Still PO and Oath as hardest common matchups. I've been slightly positive against both. DRS blue decks can be tough too, depending how explosive your hand is. Dredge obv horrible preboard.

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        • R
          Rat3dE last edited by

          @kaluma Would you consider playing one copy of either Stony and/or of Containment Priest in the main-deck, just for those matchups? Maybe cut a Leovold and something? Also how hard is it for you to plop down an Energy Flux against Shops?

          "Pitch Dredge is the worst thing to happen to Vintage this decade." - 2015 Vintage Champion Brian Kelly

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          • kaluma
            kaluma @Rat3dE last edited by kaluma

            @rat3de not playing white, so no. Null rod is a strong maindeck card, but as stated above need to keep creature and blue count high. Priest is a poor maindeck card.

            If you want to dunk on shops, it's not that hard. Play flux, null rods/stony, and a few cheap removal spells. That with mana dorks and fatties is a overwhelming combo 9/10 times. I'm not playing flux to have slightly more versatile SB cards. Trygon is great in the mirror and against blue control etc. All about the expected meta.

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            • G
              GutoCmtt last edited by

              I've got an update for you all! There should be created a different topic for the BUG version, which goldfish is calling BUGR

              https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1430909#online

              PS.: just a little help for those who like me were not finding kaluma's results in goldfish.

              wfain 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • wfain
                wfain @GutoCmtt last edited by

                @gutocmtt
                I was actually planning to update the OP with the various routes one can take when building, starting from the initial 20+power+lands position.

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                • G
                  GutoCmtt @wfain last edited by

                  @wfain That sounds nice. It can get confusing for someone that's just joining the thread, as we are usually discussing one list at a time. I think the spotlights should definitely be at the newest build that has potential (BUG).

                  That being said, there are 2 things I keep asking myself about the list I'm running (with grudges and no counters). Are the mana sources on it excessive? It's funny, because I hardly feel flooded G1, and I side out some mana in G2 against almost every deck (except shops), and I hardly get mana screwed. Maybe that's the right way, but sounds unoptimal. Is anyone here playing it? I'd like some insights, maybe take out a mox and put a containment priest MD to search for against dredge and oath.

                  Also, I love rav. trap against dredge AND against unexperienced survival players. But with survival, there's how to get around it. I'm thinking about running tormod's crypt, which also we can cast before thalia gets in and tax it too, and as we usually bazaar on our turn, I don't think that's a bad idea. The only downside is that people see it comming and can even blow it. But I don't feel like rav. trap is great when people expect it (like it should, as it's a trap).

                  The list is the following:

                  0_1541190697248_49f594cf-c573-422a-a342-71e234b5ffbc-image.png

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                  • wfain
                    wfain @GutoCmtt last edited by

                    @gutocmtt I think you want Stony over Null Rod. As for the mana part, I do that too. Basic Forest comes out often. I would recommend possibly one or two changes to that 75, but in general I think the plan is solid.

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                    • G
                      GutoCmtt @wfain last edited by

                      @wfain I think stony silence is an issue in a 4 color deck with splash for the 5th color. Null rod doesn't require me to fetch for savannah, and leave me relying less on not getting wasted against shops (which I don't bring any white cards against, with null rod). I get that null rod is bad against hurkyl, but repeal is getting me way more times than hurkyl and also the matchup isn't bad for this deck.

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                      • G
                        GutoCmtt last edited by

                        Oh and one thing I forgot: ESG is nice for survival loops to get more discard to play hollow ones, and in general to be one extra activation or even get someone playing ancient grudge with no mana open. But there are a lot of times where it's just a one-shot colorless mana. I think I'll cut one for the containment priest and use tormod's instead of ravenous trap.

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                        • kaluma
                          kaluma last edited by

                          So looking over the matches i've played, some interesting observations about the online meta:

                          24% of matches against PO - huge number of these decks showing up. I like the FoW version best against this deck, grudge version second best. Bant/non-red versions leaning on stony or rods feel weak to counters, tinker, mentor without a great plan against those things.

                          11% of matches against the mirror - interesting development that is only a little bit skewed by playing Kinny twice just now. Have a good plan for the mirror!! again I like the FoW version here, but mostly bc of DRS and the ability to fight opposing DRS's on the stack with misstep. I'm 8-1 against the mirror right now, but that's probably a little unsustainable.

                          9% of matches against oath - been slightly positive here, but is definitely a hard matchup.

                          9% of matches against shops - this might be more popular in paper/ challenges than leagues? I really feel like PO has hated shops out to a large degree. Seeing shops ~once every two leagues means i'm okay not devoting SB slots to hard shops hate.

                          ~25% assorted blue decks (non-PO, oath) - this ranges from highly favored to fairly tricky depending how many DRS they play, their SB options, the number of FoWs they draw compared to your survivals etc. Usually you have inevitability, except when facing DRS.

                          wfain 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • wfain
                            wfain @kaluma last edited by wfain

                            @kaluma so it sounds like figuring out how to play FoW and Grudge is the way to go? And having access to a Savannah for SB Priest seems important? Thoughts?
                            0_1541205999073_Forceof SurvivWill.JPG

                            kaluma 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • kaluma
                              kaluma @wfain last edited by kaluma

                              @wfain i don't think you need to be in white just for grave-hate. Stretching the mana to 4 colors + FoW comes at the cost of going from 4 DRS to 3 DRS. I tried it for a league and the grudge never really came up as good or bad, so TBD.

                              edit - seeing the picture now. list definitely looks playable. still don't think priest is worth splashing for. priest/thalia/stony is a compelling reason, but not compatible with FoW. I like deep analysis as an idea. I think you do want squee maindeck - over pearl?

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                              • wfain
                                wfain @kaluma last edited by

                                @kaluma Yeah, if I cut Priest and Savannah. I’d go Squee and a fetch in the main. Another Grudge in the board perhaps? Maybe then add 2 Ravenous Traps on top of the Leylines?

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                                • John Cox
                                  John Cox last edited by

                                  Is the survival player in the top 8 in Pittsburgh anyone here?

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                                  • N
                                    neo_altoid last edited by

                                    I don't think so. I made top 16 on BUG force of will survival

                                    kaluma 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • John Cox
                                      John Cox last edited by John Cox

                                      I would love to see them take it all. Them or @The-Atog-Lord, he deserves it by now.

                                      wfain 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • wfain
                                        wfain @John Cox last edited by

                                        @john-cox if my crazy brew from the beginning of the summer wins both Asia and US Eternal Weekend I’ll feel like my MtG career has been vindicated 😂😂😂

                                        John Cox 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • John Cox
                                          John Cox @wfain last edited by

                                          @wfain I think you will have accomplished alot even if your brew has only won one big championship.

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                                          • kaluma
                                            kaluma @neo_altoid last edited by

                                            @neo_altoid congrats! Would love to see a write up and decklist!

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