@kaluma that is pretty spot on, yes. Goyf and Tasigur help the Shops match quite a bit. The best thing against Outcome I’ve found is to be very aggressive and try to make them go before they want to, but like you said- sometimes they just go a different route and you get beat by quick Mentor+Time Walk or Tinker. I’m hoping the combo of Thalia, Stony, and Manglehorn is enough to disrupt them and that I can find the Drake if they make Blightsteel. As for the Cradle, I think it is still ok with 5 dorks because of the additional 2 drops, might be wrong though.

Great that we have a topic for this deck now. Seems great.

You might want to correct Aether Flux to Energy Flux though 😛

I love everything happening here.

I'm loving this deck. I was active in the other thread and had suggested Drake, Thalia, and Manglehorn. I thought of another, Gaddock Teeg. It literally affects nothing in your list, but puts a damper on PO and big blue/tendrils. Keep up the good work.

last edited by Serracollector

@serracollector yeah, I’ve tried Teeg before- just lost too many times to tutor+Tinker or Mentor+cantrips+Time Walk 🤷🏻♂

apologies if this is not the appropriate place to put this but i'm going to stream this deck a little tonight if anyone wants to come hang out!! https://www.twitch.tv/kaluma47

Went 5-1 on the night: 3-0 vs shops, 1-1 vs Four Color Pile, 1-0 vs UWR standstill. Really like the plan against shops, got to play Brian Kelly while he wasn't on oath, and won a lot of games without ever activating Survival. Overall, really fun! Great list you put together @wfain ! Slots I'm going to play with are Leovold (for Kambal) and Wispmare (for Chains of Mephastopheles), but the list really does feel very powerful.

@kaluma How many times did you get the engine Bazaar - Vengevine - Hollow One running?

I am also playing a Survival list, but without Bazaar, Vengevine and Hollow One. Instead I am running more hate with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Varolz - Scar Striped, Tocatli Honor Guard and Phyrexian Dreadnought.

I had lots of trouble against control with Tinker - Blightsteel Colossus on second or third turn.

@kaluma did you draw Cradle very much? Did it work ok or should it revert to another dual? Or Riftstone Portal?

3-2 with the above list. Close losses to Outcome/Mentor and Shops. Beat Shops, Team Leo, and Steel City Vault (I think, could’ve been an Outcome deck with a Notion Thief 🤷🏻♂️)

Gonna try @kaluma idea of losing the Leovold in favor of another Thalia and replacing the Thalia in the board with a Chains of Mephistopheles.

@quo Bazaar was great. used it all the time to filter, dump things in the GY, cast rootwallas and hollow ones. This league it was the driving engine of the deck. Also uncounterable!

@wfain Drew cradle one time and it was good. Riftstone portal I had to play as a land once and never ended up in the GY. I could see that being a second fetchable white land or blue land for being able to cast shops SB cards through wastelands.

I'm trying -leovold, -wispmare, +kambal, +chains right now.

@kaluma I’m scared to cut Wispmare- no way to kill Leyline and -1 way to kill Oath seems icky to me, but I'll try it.

Edit: Tried it, went 4-1. Having second Thalia in the main led to a pretty funny game against a Blue Tinker deck: T1 he played a land and Preordain, I played Bazaar, Emerald, Lotus- activate Bazaar to pitch VV, crack Lotus for WWW, cast Thalia, he Forces, tap Emerald, cast another Thalia, get back VV, cast Hollow One. He scoops.


last edited by wfain

@kaluma maybe we just want some Thoughtseize in the board to fight Outcome (good vs Storm and Oath as well)?

way to go! looks good! I'm kind of okay with oath just being a bad matchup. Fairish green decks probably don't have the ability to really fight everything and I'd rather have SB slots to tilt a closer matchup rather than try to fix the 80-20 matchup.

@serracollector it’s pretty decent so far! I’m sitting on 4-0 in league with the 2 Thalia list from a couple posts up. Tasigur/Tarmogoyf make the Shops matchup like 60/40 in my favor where before it was like 40/60 or something. Those dudes just handle all but the most busted Ravager/Overseer draws.
Tasigur also makes it a little easier to trigger VV through Trinisphere (which was nearly impossible before).

EDIT: went 5-0. Pretty decent hits on my prize chests too!

last edited by wfain

Is Hooting Mandrills worth trying over goyf? Its what I'm using (no goyfs).

@john-cox I don’t think so 🤷🏻♂️ Delving isn’t exactly trivial in a Vengevine/Wonder/Anger deck, and the fact that Goyf can still be played even if you haven’t activated Bazaar might matter. It seems reasonable to try Hooty over Tasigur though
Edit: Goyf is actually fine against the Jace decks where the delve guys aren’t.

last edited by wfain
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