@kaluma that is pretty spot on, yes. Goyf and Tasigur help the Shops match quite a bit. The best thing against Outcome I’ve found is to be very aggressive and try to make them go before they want to, but like you said- sometimes they just go a different route and you get beat by quick Mentor+Time Walk or Tinker. I’m hoping the combo of Thalia, Stony, and Manglehorn is enough to disrupt them and that I can find the Drake if they make Blightsteel. As for the Cradle, I think it is still ok with 5 dorks because of the additional 2 drops, might be wrong though.
I'm loving this deck. I was active in the other thread and had suggested Drake, Thalia, and Manglehorn. I thought of another, Gaddock Teeg. It literally affects nothing in your list, but puts a damper on PO and big blue/tendrils. Keep up the good work.
Went 5-1 on the night: 3-0 vs shops, 1-1 vs Four Color Pile, 1-0 vs UWR standstill. Really like the plan against shops, got to play Brian Kelly while he wasn't on oath, and won a lot of games without ever activating Survival. Overall, really fun! Great list you put together @wfain ! Slots I'm going to play with are Leovold (for Kambal) and Wispmare (for Chains of Mephastopheles), but the list really does feel very powerful.
@kaluma How many times did you get the engine Bazaar - Vengevine - Hollow One running?
I am also playing a Survival list, but without Bazaar, Vengevine and Hollow One. Instead I am running more hate with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Varolz - Scar Striped, Tocatli Honor Guard and Phyrexian Dreadnought.
I had lots of trouble against control with Tinker - Blightsteel Colossus on second or third turn.
3-2 with the above list. Close losses to Outcome/Mentor and Shops. Beat Shops, Team Leo, and Steel City Vault (I think, could’ve been an Outcome deck with a Notion Thief ️)
Gonna try @kaluma idea of losing the Leovold in favor of another Thalia and replacing the Thalia in the board with a Chains of Mephistopheles.
@quo Bazaar was great. used it all the time to filter, dump things in the GY, cast rootwallas and hollow ones. This league it was the driving engine of the deck. Also uncounterable!
@wfain Drew cradle one time and it was good. Riftstone portal I had to play as a land once and never ended up in the GY. I could see that being a second fetchable white land or blue land for being able to cast shops SB cards through wastelands.
I'm trying -leovold, -wispmare, +kambal, +chains right now.
@kaluma I’m scared to cut Wispmare- no way to kill Leyline and -1 way to kill Oath seems icky to me, but I'll try it.
Edit: Tried it, went 4-1. Having second Thalia in the main led to a pretty funny game against a Blue Tinker deck: T1 he played a land and Preordain, I played Bazaar, Emerald, Lotus- activate Bazaar to pitch VV, crack Lotus for WWW, cast Thalia, he Forces, tap Emerald, cast another Thalia, get back VV, cast Hollow One. He scoops.
Good thinking, @wfain! I never expected quickly mentioning your 5-0 in the Hollow One thread to lead to such an in-depth discussion, and I'm glad you took the time to create a much-needed independent thread for this emerging archetype.
On Tuesday I played a list that I've since scrapped, trying out a maindeck Qasali Pridemage and an additional Qasali Pridemage and a Trygon Predator in the sideboard. What I found was, although I could resolve Trygon Predator during the game I drew it against Ravager Shops, the lack of immediate impact was a huge detriment. Qasali Pridemage, while exalted is cute, ended up being an overcosted Disenchant the two times I resolved it. In every situation Manglehorn would have been significantly better.
The Qasali build was my first dropped league (1-3) out of the five I've played. I'm now 1-1 in my league with the @kaluma's 5-0 list from last week, and will finish streaming it tonight. If I have enough time before VSL I'll start another league with @wfain's post that's a few above this one, but I don't think I'll get more than the three games done in the two hours before VSL. While I've had a ton of fun with my own 75s I really want to give these Dark Confidant builds a reasonable shot. Nothing forces me to see someone else's perspective more than running their exact build.
@serracollector it’s pretty decent so far! I’m sitting on 4-0 in league with the 2 Thalia list from a couple posts up. Tasigur/Tarmogoyf make the Shops matchup like 60/40 in my favor where before it was like 40/60 or something. Those dudes just handle all but the most busted Ravager/Overseer draws.
Tasigur also makes it a little easier to trigger VV through Trinisphere (which was nearly impossible before).
EDIT: went 5-0. Pretty decent hits on my prize chests too!
@john-cox I don’t think so ️ Delving isn’t exactly trivial in a Vengevine/Wonder/Anger deck, and the fact that Goyf can still be played even if you haven’t activated Bazaar might matter. It seems reasonable to try Hooty over Tasigur though
Edit: Goyf is actually fine against the Jace decks where the delve guys aren’t.