Survival Salad


  • TMD Supporter

    On a totally unrelated and irrelevant note, do the new Vengevine and Noble Hierach masterpieces push this deck even further into the insurmountable #1 Most Expensive Deck slot by a longshot?



  • @joshuabrooks said in Survival Salad:

    On a totally unrelated and irrelevant note, do the new Vengevine and Noble Hierach masterpieces push this deck even further into the insurmountable #1 Most Expensive Deck slot by a longshot?

    I think you certainly can have a pimp version of this deck which is nearly as bad as anything else. I think the only reason you don't get there is that USea--which we don't play--is so much more expensive than pimp versions of Trop and Bayou.



  • @joshuabrooks I'd bet a fully masterpiece'd Shops deck costs more.



  • Going to be streaming some Vintage today if anyone wants to hang out!

    https://www.twitch.tv/kaluma47



  • @kaluma I wonder if white is a better color for the FoW versions? You could play several Spell Queller to allow for a higher blue count and even more ways to counter PO.



  • @wfain

    How are you jamming in more blue cards? All of the black cards main are already blue as well!

    For real though, I thought about Spell Queller, and my issue with the card is that it sucks against Jeskai. You end up wanting to Spell Queller cards like Preordain rather than spells that matter, since you get so thoroughly ranched by removal if you ever tuck something like a Jace or Dack Fayden under the card. Leovold is blue, and does the deed of hosing PO roughly as well as Spell Queller (we trade beating Tinker for being better against the cantrips).



  • @neo_altoid idk, I’d have to sit down and look at it.



  • @wfain i'd be down to try it, but really leovold is the best blue creature - the intersection between SoTF and FoW that you are looking for.



  • @kaluma @neo_altoid
    0_1541632101637_quellersurvival.JPG

    Maybe this is good? I'll try it a couple matches tonight.



  • Poor Squee, he's already got that face and you put him alone ;(

    I think between queller and leovold, I'd put another copy of leovold. When I played queller I didn't like holding mana for it, sometimes you have to spend more than a turn and not do other things. Leovold is just a must-answer creature in more than half of the matches, and if you are running missteps and fow to protect it while drawing cards from his hability, it's just insane.

    Just played a league with the list from kaluma's stream and I really liked it. Phantasmal and containment priest made me run more confidence against tinker (while still losing, but variance hits every deck), and I guess it would be nice against oath and it's blue to force.

    Btw, I really liked your idea of hurkyl's in the side. Hurkyl end step to survival with nothing holding you back, and even have another turn until your opponent be able to attack again. I mean, energy flux is kinda lights out for shops when you play it, but it's 3 mana against a deck with wasteland, sphere, revoker... And sometimes hurkyl would save you when flux wouldn't. I'll definitely try it for my next league on flux's spot!

    One thing that's bothering me is treasure cruise. It's never been able to be good to me. Sure, sometimes you will draw lots of cards with it, but it takes some time to set it up. With no extreme cantripping and stuff you sometimes have to bazaar some amount of times to make it work, and then you are just compensating the card disadvantage you had from bazaar, and sometimes even exiling things you wanted. It's kinda like the time walk situation, except it's even harder here. And if you draw it when you are 'leylined', the game gets even worse. Have it been worth it for you guys?



  • Going back on other lists I saw wfain's idea of deep analysis (DA). And to me it sounds awesome in comparison to Treasure Cruise (TC):

    You will probably TC either too late, or when you have bazaar online. With DA you don't have to worry to keep it in hand, leaving room for the best do-something cards you have in hand. When you bazaar blindly and you hit DA it's awesome. When you do it with TC, it's just a waste of bazaar activation. It can be cast through leyline (not easily, but I've cast tons of vengevines through leylines), and even if you have bazaar, in the late game it has the secred mode of pay 4 draw 2 in addition to the flashback.

    I'm not sure DA is the best answer to what deserves that slot. But it's sounding better than TC to me.



  • Instead of treasure cruise could you use your own paradoxical outcome? Rootwalla, hollow ones and vengevines might not be that hard to get out again?



  • @highsididy1 4cmc is virtually uncastable



  • @gutocmtt I haven’t been in love with cruise either, but it is powerful and blue. Maybe DA is better? I could also be convinced of Brainstorm instead. As for the Queller- I did 2 because I wanted to actually see it in order to figure out if it is even worth having in the FoW version.



  • I'm just starting to think about this deck so forgive me if this is silly, but for the blue version has anyone just tried snapcaster mage and/or spellseeker? These add to the blue count, can be found by survival, and let you tutor for and replay ancestral and time walk. Might this be better than treasure cruise if you already run ancestral?



  • @marcb that is definitely something I was think about earlier, the problem is having 3 mana and UU is not trivial in this deck. You also run the issue of if you have Survival and the mana to do all that you could just make a bunch of dudes instead. Add that to the low spell count and I think those cards are not where you want to be.



  • Of those 2, spellseeker sounds better. When you have 1-ofs, you usually mean to grab then with survival. The only time you will spend 4 or 5 mana to a recall with survival online, is when there is some hate assembled. As most of the survival hates get snapcaster, you will probably want to fetch spellseeker, which would be fine considering it would 'replace' a creature with a recall. But still, I don't think that's enough. Also, the 5 mana it takes probably means you would have to take 2 or 3 turns to do that.



  • @gutocmtt said in Survival Salad:

    Poor Squee, he's already got that face and you put him alone ;(

    That's because @wfain is a monster.

    Just played a league with the list from kaluma's stream and I really liked it. Phantasmal and containment priest made me run more confidence against tinker (while still losing, but variance hits every deck), and I guess it would be nice against oath and it's blue to force.

    PI has consistently impressed. It answers a lot of the problems of the deck without being pure trash outside of problem situations. 1U 4/3 haste is for real.

    Btw, I really liked your idea of hurkyl's in the side. Hurkyl end step to survival with nothing holding you back, and even have another turn until your opponent be able to attack again. I mean, energy flux is kinda lights out for shops when you play it, but it's 3 mana against a deck with wasteland, sphere, revoker... And sometimes hurkyl would save you when flux wouldn't. I'll definitely try it for my next league on flux's spot!

    I like the idea of Hurkyl's (and we certainly do enter a Hurkyls->you're dead kind of state). Worth trying (I think it's wrong), but worth trying, as Hurkyl's x2+Trygon+removal gives pretty good game.

    I also hate only 12 mana producing lands. It's possible that it's right, and 4 mox is correct, but I hate only 12 lands.

    Re: Cruise--I've found that it's one of the worst cards early and one of the best cards late. Deep Analysis isn't insanity to play, and worth trying. I think Brainstorm is pretty overrated, tbh, as you want to brainstorm with a full hand, and Survival does not have a full hand all the time. I'd cut Brainstorm before I cut Cruise.



  • @neo_altoid i've liked cruise a lot and i think it's an easy include. heck, i'd been playing it in Bant versions over mandrills. Drawing 3 cards is just good. there are times when you need to evaluate your bazaar cards and think "are 3 random cards better than the X i have access to right now?"

    Phantasmal image has impress me as well. I came with low expectations though. It seems to be a little "win-more" as just a value creature - you need to already have a big guy on board for it to be good, copying deathrite is medium. As a bullet card it's been pretty solid - i used it to copy a Sphinx once (but then it got jace'd and I lost), and I almost used it to copy a Reality Smasher for lethal, but was wasted off blue mana.

    Hurkyls/ Shops hate/ Mana producing lands all kind of fall into the same boat. If you expect a lot of shops, the blue version is slightly worse than other versions. You are cutting back on mana sources and creatures for blue cards which range from "okay" to "really bad" against shops. Luckily, shops does not seem to be a major player in the online meta right now (thanks PO?). If you are trying to maximize your win% against shops while still playing the blue cards, play all 4 deathrites, and from there, maybe energy flux, maybe hurkyls, maybe a pile of nature's claims? I splashed a couple grudges btw the main/side in the blue list for a league, so maybe that's a good option too.



  • Just finished up a 4-1 with the Queller list. They seem fine. Not clear they’re better than the Fluster and MBT @kaluma has been using. Going to try another run through minus Cruise and Bstorm in favor of another Leovold and Deep Analysis.



WAF/WHF