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    • thecravenone
      thecravenone @matori last edited by

      @matori I haven't looked at the rules again recently but I'm pretty sure that exile zone is illegal.

      Worth noting that it doesn't say you can't play lands up front - only that they have to be behind other stuff creatures. You can still play your lands up front if you don't have anything else to put in front of them! I actually had someone call me out on an Island at the top of my playmat with no other permanents in play!

      Quote from: Stormanimagus on March 16, 2016, 06:39:41 pm
      >Instead of tearing things down we should calmly explain our opinions.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Brass Man
        Brass Man last edited by

        Am I the only person in the world who plays dredge without fanning their graveyard?

        BlindTherapy 5space thecravenone 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • BlindTherapy
          BlindTherapy @Brass Man last edited by

          @brass-man ideal layout for dredge is deck in the middle-ish of the mat, graveyard in 1-3 columns on the smaller side(right), permanents to the larger side(left).

          A grave is the safest place to store ill-gotten treasures.

          NYSE 3 winner, vintage champs 2015 top 4, vintage champs mox emerald 2021 top 4.

          Unban Shahrazad.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • 5space
            5space @Brass Man last edited by

            @brass-man I also do not. Sometimes I will slide each top card down slightly just so that the name under it is visible (and so on), but I never fan side-to-side.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • thecravenone
              thecravenone @Brass Man last edited by

              @brass-man said in Game Layout rules:

              Am I the only person in the world who plays dredge without fanning their graveyard?

              We have a local who doesn't fan out their graveyard. I hate it because I'm constantly asking to look at their yard. I think that's this person's reasoning though - some people won't constantly ask so you can "get" people with a card they didn't know was in your pile.

              Quote from: Stormanimagus on March 16, 2016, 06:39:41 pm
              >Instead of tearing things down we should calmly explain our opinions.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • ?
                A Former User @matori last edited by A Former User

                @matori said in Game Layout rules:

                @thecravenone said in Game Layout rules:

                It's fun to picture how this rule applies to dredg

                This can be good example :
                alt text

                I see two bad things in this pic: one is that the exile zone should be next to the library, as pointed out by @thecravenone. The other (more speculative) is that having all that bunch of lands close to each other in the graveyard tells me that the gy order has probably been messed with, which is also illegal in Eternal formats.

                JonHammack dataspot 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • JonHammack
                  JonHammack @Guest last edited by

                  @fsecco FWIW, this appears to be modern, and GY order does not matter in that format.

                  ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • ?
                    A Former User @JonHammack last edited by

                    @jonhammack Sure. Thought it was Legacy, but didn't see the shocklands 😛

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • matori
                      matori last edited by

                      Picture is screen shoot from Round 14 Grand Prix Phoenix feature match.
                      It's a modern.
                      Zones are outlined to show that Dredge player can keep clean battlefield even with fanned graveyard. I am not sure about Exile zone legality, but since this is from GP feature match I guess judges were ok with it.

                      ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • ?
                        A Former User @matori last edited by A Former User

                        @matori I don't know if this is Dominaria update or if it was already like this before, but now it's on the rules that gy and exile must be adjacent to the library.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • Oestrus
                          Oestrus last edited by

                          Per the official notes:

                          "Players in exceptional situations (e.g. a player playing a deck with no lands or a deck that makes significant use of the graveyard) should consult with tournament officials to determine what allowance, if any, will be made."

                          "Death is no excuse to stop working."

                          brianpk80 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • brianpk80
                            brianpk80 @Oestrus last edited by

                            The ideal layout for Dredge is nothing in play and everything in exile. 😉

                            Samantha: “Matt, the deck lost to Merfolk.”
                            Matt: “I don’t build decks to beat Merfolk. In any format.”

                            Oestrus 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 7
                            • Oestrus
                              Oestrus @brianpk80 last edited by

                              @brianpk80 AFK sprinkling jacks under your tires.

                              "Death is no excuse to stop working."

                              mdkubiak 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                              • mdkubiak
                                mdkubiak TMD Supporter @Oestrus last edited by

                                @oestrus I feel so much love between the two of you. 🙂

                                "So my gut reaction is that Brian Kelly sounds like your spirit animal" - Andrew "Brassman" Probasco

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                • dataspot
                                  dataspot @Guest last edited by

                                  @fsecco, the graveyard order and game layout are treated similarly. While you are correct that MTR section 3.14 says that graveyards using cards prior to Urza's Saga can't be reordered, most decks in Legacy and Vintage don't play cards that are affected by graveyard order, so judges won't strictly enforce it. If a player is playing cards that are affected by graveyard order, they must keep their graveyard in the proper order.

                                  The same thing goes with board layout. As long as it's clear to all players, anyone playing a deck that relies heavily on the graveyard or exile may expand those zones.

                                  If the setup of the game causes some confusion, the judge may issue a warning for Communication Policy Violation and could back the game up to the point of the decision that was made based on the incorrect information per IPG 3.7.

                                  ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • ?
                                    A Former User @dataspot last edited by

                                    @dataspot That was true before Dominaria, but now you are obligated to put lands closer to you and gy and exile adjacent to the library (in competitive and professional REL). Except in cases like @Oestrus pointed out, of course.
                                    You can look here https://wpn.wizards.com/sites/wpn/files/attachements/mtg_mtr_27apr18_en.pdf in section 4.6 Game Layout.

                                    About the graveyard order, the rules says:
                                    3.14 Graveyard Order
                                    In formats involving only cards from Urza’s Saga™ and later, players may change the order of their graveyard at
                                    any time. A player may not change the order of an opponent’s graveyard.

                                    So I believe in Eternal formats you cannot change the order of the gy even if you don't play cards like Shallow Grave. I could be wrong though, but that's what I understand of the rules.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • Dstinct
                                      Dstinct last edited by Dstinct

                                      Good to know it's actually a rule. Mind you I've always played that way since I started playing ages ago.

                                      What people really find strange is that I play all my cards facing my opponent and always have. I just figure I already know what everything in my deck does, so it just makes it easier for my opponent to read the cards. Anybody else do this?

                                      edit: interesting. As per 4.6 this is illegal. "Each untapped permanent should face its controller." I've never been called on it. Perhaps because it says "should" instead of "must"?

                                      Chronatog thecravenone 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Chronatog
                                        Chronatog @Dstinct last edited by

                                        @dstinct said in Game Layout rules:

                                        What people really find strange is that I play all my cards facing my opponent and always have. I just figure I already know what everything in my deck does, so it just makes it easier for my opponent to read the cards. Anybody else do this?
                                        edit: interesting. As per 4.6 this is illegal. "Each untapped permanent should face its controller." I've never been called on it. Perhaps because it says "should" instead of "must"?

                                        And how do you mark creatures with summoning sickness? I have always played them facing my opponent as a courtesy and reminder which creatures just came into play.

                                        Dstinct 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • BlindTherapy
                                          BlindTherapy last edited by

                                          turning things 180 is also the normal way that elves players represent having used the 1/turn abilities on quirion ranger and wirewood symbiote, so prohibiting it would be bad.

                                          A grave is the safest place to store ill-gotten treasures.

                                          NYSE 3 winner, vintage champs 2015 top 4, vintage champs mox emerald 2021 top 4.

                                          Unban Shahrazad.

                                          ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • ?
                                            A Former User @BlindTherapy last edited by

                                            @blindtherapy

                                            pros just use the ability more than once.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
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