Years ago at a Vintage Champs I played a deck I called Crime and Punishment. I ran Intuition to grab Life from the Loam + Strip Mine + Raven's Crime. The deck was very strong in testing but went like 0-20 in tournament matches that weekend 😄

I could see Grove/Fire getting the axe due to the 21 liability, though PFire seems like the most resilient way to end Planeswalkers though.

Thoughts on using the tiny bit of black in the manabase for a MD Demonic Tutor? Seems pretty decent in any match that you'd likely bring Decays in for.

@hierarchnoble Blue also has Cephalid Coliseum which seems cool. Maybe even Academy Ruins to get those Null Rods after dredging them with Loam.

Blue also has Search for Azcanta possibly? Helps find Loam and fuel it. Sorry if my suggestions are off base, I just really like this archetype and love innovations.

last edited by Serracollector

I play RGu in legacy, the main reason for the blue splash is academy ruins and engineered explosives.

EE seems great in vintage too


This is spot on. Realms uncharted may theoretically be intriguing, but there are numerous cards that the deck is already not playing that are far better.

If you want a faster clock -> Crop Rotation
If you want a 3 mana multi card tutor -> Intuition
If you simply want a good tutor -> Gamble

These are 3 very clear better cards that serve a similar function and are borderline playable in the deck.

@vaughnbros said in Vintage Lands:


This is spot on. Realms uncharted may theoretically be intriguing, but there are numerous cards that the deck is already not playing that are far better.

If you want a faster clock -> Crop Rotation
If you want a 3 mana multi card tutor -> Intuition
If you simply want a good tutor -> Gamble

These are 3 very clear better cards that serve a similar function and are borderline playable in the deck.

I'm really surprised no one has mentioned gifts ungiven in this discussion.

last edited by John Cox

@john-cox isn't gifts just even slower intuition/realms uncharted in this deck?

its similar to realms uncharted but can find loam or another non land card.

Taking this deck for a spin tomorrow at the ELD open. Wish me luck, and a tournament report will follow after.


I have a tried this deck a little bit, just testing it out with a friend but have not tried it on mtgo yet. My question is whether or not the Grove of the Burnwillows are necessary? We found that often gaining the opponent life would matter, as it would make Lage take an additional swing to kill them.

Has anyone else encountered this problem? And if so, is it simply something we have to live with because punishing fire is an absolute necessity?

On mtgo the meta seems to be a lot of URx draw-go decks, not a ton of shops or dredge, survival here and there, almost 0 oath decks, played against it 1 time in the past month. PO exists too, but not in incredibly high numbers, I'm usually the one playing it myself, more often than not my opponent is on a blue deck. Not sure how I would configure the 75 for that, or if the deck would even be a good choice in that field.

last edited by DrawCardsWin

@childe_roland Crucible is very bad against Dack Faden, it does seem like there should be a slot for it in vintage lands, even in the board against shops but funnily it's not quite as good as you'd think.

A few weeks ago @ChubbyRain played this deck. I have no clue how he did because I didn't watch, but The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and Bojuka Bog seem like the only damn cards left that Dredge doesn't build to sidestep in a post-London world. Bonus points for stunting on anyone brewing with Mystic Gate (EDIT: Mystic Forge. Thanks unremarkable WotC card names!) a la Force of Vigor.

last edited by Anonymous

Wow, Wrenn & Six are strong. I also made up a list and tested a bit, which is the direction I see the lands deck going. The list is a huge pile of 75.

3 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus

1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
1 Fastbond
1 Sylvan Library

1 Ancestral Recall
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Mental Misstep
2 Force of Vigor
1 Ancient Grudge

1 Strip Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Wasteland

3 Riftstone Portal
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Taiga
1 Waterlogged Grove
1 Fiery Islet
1 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Dark Depths
2 Thespian's Stage

4 Wrenn and Six
1 Dack Fayden

1 Time Walk
3 Life from the Loam
1 Balance
4 Living Wish
1 Wheel of Fortune

1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Eternal Witness
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Manglehorn

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dark Depths
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

2 Ravenous Trap
1 Force of Vigor

As i've seen, it feels a bit like old 5c Stax lists, denying mana, locking the game up.
(Yes, zuran orb is bad. it is the WIN more button. helps when low on life. draw the deck, infinite life, etc. Courser works, too. kindof. The rest of the cards are legitimate. It is able to win easily with wrenn+waste, then living wish for collector's ouphe.)

It's probably not streamlined enough, though.

Hi all, wanted to bump a thread I started sometime ago discussing lands (I am the mysterious “guest” in many of these posts).

I won a tournament over the weekend running the following. I have put a tremendous amount of work into this archetype for a really long time and it felt great to get a win with the list regardless of the size of the tournament:


Maindeck (61)
4 Crop Rotation
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Life from the Loam
1 Force of Vigor
1 Black Lotus
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Emerald
4 Null Rod
1 Exploration
4 Fastbond
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Ancient Tomb
3 Bayou
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
3 Riftstone Portal
1 Strip Mine
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Thespian's Stage
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
3 Dark Confidant
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Choke
1 Blast Zone

My rounds were as follows:

UW Saheeli Combo-won 2-1
Shops-loss 1-2 (game three was one of the strangest games I’ve ever played and I lost due to all over my win cons getting exiled despite overwhelming board control)
Jeskai xerox- won 2-1
4c Paradoxical- won 2-1 (Chains of Mephistopheles and null rod combine to make a great pair)

Top 4
Survival- won 2-1 me and @Mike-Noble had a great match here in the Bazaar “mirror match” that didn’t involve dredge.
Shops won 2-0.

Having unrestricted fastbond really helps the deck a lot but having only 1 misstep I think is a bigger factor. It lets you get through your worst matchups a lot cleaner than before.

I went straight BG for this build and it really impressed me. Chains was great where it needed to be and thoughtseize out of the board was awesome all day long.

I think there’s so many builds to be had with this deck and this is just one of many.

Cards that impressed me:

  • Chains (except when Joe Brennan kept playing Dack Fayden and targeting me right after I played it)
  • Thoughtseize- Gave me great interaction against all of my blue matchups especially with misstep restricted. Stealing a key card from combo or a piece of interaction from Jeskai followed by a lock piece felt great
  • 2x Tabernacle- I have never run less than 2 tabernacle in this deck and continue to stand by that number in vintage. It makes your strong matches so much stronger and it’s a great safety net where you need it against shops.
  • Choke- I go back and forth on this card in vintage but it was awesome for me and it buys a ton of time when you are going the prison route.

Cards that didn’t impress me:

  • Blast Zone- I keep going back and forth on this card but it felt way too slow or not needed in all my matchups. I feel like another build could utilize it better though.

I hope people keep continuing to brew and try new things with this archetype. There’s so many lists to be had!

Happy brewing.

Since it's mainly black green have you considered Dark Heart of the Woods alongside Ramunup/Crucible for the infinite? It gets around Ouphe and Null Rod, and Dack.

last edited by Serracollector


Congrats on the win. The list looks great, and I look forward to trying it out myself. Have you played/tested much versus combo and Outcome? Those are the two matchups I struggle with the most.


I've been extremely impressed by Glacial Chasm playing the role of infinite-combo enabler.

That's why there are two copies in the 5-0 list that @Mike-Noble linked to (I based that deck off of his list).

Other desirable features of Chasm are that it is uncounterable when played from the hand, can be tutored via Crop Rotation or Loam, can be played from the graveyard, gets Riftstone Portal into the graveyard, and can buy a few turns under heavy pressure.

Edit: I should also add that you can copy Chasm with Thespian's Stage to buy even more time if you need to. That's come up a few times.

last edited by Zias
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