I agree with your analysis but for one point : tutor can't get you a silver bullet in instant whereas entomb can. However, maybe we don't need that technology.

I understand that relying too much on the graveyard can be a problem but IMHO any card with flashback or retrace can have a potential in that deck. Raven's crime is better than you think and can easily deal with 3 cards a turn but i agree that the strong black requirement would make this deck very different and is not worth it on its own.

How does Damping Sphere fit into lands?

@nungnum I've been running it in place of some of the Null Rods to improve the redundancy of those slots. It's a trade-off since Null Rod has been much stronger, but multiple Null Rods do nothing (ha!). Multiple Damping Spheres add to the storm tax, but it's a much weaker effect. I took my list with four Null Rods, split two and two between maindeck and sideboard, and swapped in a maindeck and sideboard Damping Sphere.

It looks like @POXEVERYTURN has removed himself from the website. I'll try my best to contribute, but I don't play the deck much anymore due to testing a variety of strategies instead of sticking to just this one.

Has anyone tried Realms Uncharted in any of these lists? I have always thought the card very strong, now with Crucible, and Ramunup, and Loam, its comparable to Gifts in these lists right?

@serracollector I don't like it that much. What you need is Loam, not lands. If you don't have loam, you Realms into what?

I suppose something like Depths, Stage, Petrified Field and Bazaar? But then you're diluting your good lands with Field and playing a 3 cmc spell that does almost nothing for you. I'd play Gamble 1-4 before 1 Realms.

last edited by fsecco

Its all dependant on board position I would imagine, but Realms into multiple strip efx, tabernacles, bojoku bogs, etc etc could all lead to a win. Its not just necessarily for combos, it can just be a value play as well.

I do understand gamble as well, but this can "gamble" for 4 cards for 1 less mana, and less deck space (assuming you run 1 or 2 Realms vs 4 Gamble). Gamble does have the benefit of getting loam or hopefully Fastbond tho, so maybe a mix of both could be very helpful?

last edited by Serracollector

@serracollector Gamble is mainly for Loam. IF you already have Loam it tutors the land you need. The problem with Realms is that it's too slow and doesn't get you what you want. Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I feel you really need a Loam for Realms to work well.

last edited by fsecco

@serracollector Suggesting Realms Uncharted, and not understanding the usefulness of Gamble, suggests to me that you don't understand the core of the deck. Yes, it's called Vintage Lands, but that doesn't mean we test every single card that interacts favorably with the Land card type. It's a Life from the Loam deck, and the remaining 56 cards aim to optimize Life from the Loam and try to make it a recurring draw 3 as often as possible.

If there were a card to run instead of Gamble it would be Entomb. It finds you your Life from the Loam, or finds you the land you want when you have Life from the Loam. However, I've been steering clear of black in current lists since I've felt my mana stretched thin trying to support so many colorless lands.

last edited by Guest

I understand Loam is the main engine, but it is a "draw" card that randomly fills your grave with lands, Realms is a tutor that finds the lands you need at that time for whatever situation is at hand. Loam is useless if you either dont have lands in your grave or dont have the lands you need in the grave. I do not understand how Realms doesnt 100% compliment Loam in helping you get the lands you need to Loam back?

Space is tight, @serracollector, and every other card in my current 75 is better than a three-mana double Entomb for only lands. This is my current build. In its current iteration there isn't even room for Gamble, a card that can make the cut. What would you cut, why would you cut it, and how do you expect Realms Uncharted to perform better than the cut card in the scenario the cut card was included for?

Its not just a double Entomb tho, its 2 in hand (that a majority of the time both can be played) and a double Entomb as you put it. I personally would try 1 Realms over 1 Ancient Grudge in that list, and just see how it works out. If Im wrong and its garbage, that is fine, but I think it will be very useful in a lot of scenerios.

The card you want is Loam not more lands.

intuition for loam + targets (or triple exploration effect) seems better than realms uncharted by far and still doesn't make the cut.

I assume the mana just doesn't support tolaria west? riftstone portal is just the wrong colors for it.

@serracollector said in Vintage Lands:

Its not just a double Entomb tho, its 2 in hand (that a majority of the time both can be played) and a double Entomb as you put it. I personally would try 1 Realms over 1 Ancient Grudge in that list, and just see how it works out. If Im wrong and its garbage, that is fine, but I think it will be very useful in a lot of scenerios.

Ancient Grudge needs to be a 3-of minimum. Realms Uncharted doesn't solve the problem Ancient Grudge solves against decks relying heavily on artifacts and especially artifact mana. Ancient Grudge is vital both as a way of taking out Workshop's creatures directly or taking them out indirectly by destroying the mana they'd use to pay for The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. Realms Uncharted also does nothing to speed up our clock or slow down the clock of Paradoxical decks. Taking them off one mana source during the casting of Paradoxical Outcome, especially Mox Opal, nets them one less card and possibly the mana to chain multiple together. Hitting Time Vault after Voltaic Key targets it is wonderful too. I wish I had room in the maindeck or sideboard for the 4th Ancient Grudge, but I need to hit other permanent types. My hope is always that Null Rod functions as the 4th Ancient Grudge when it matters.

As a nitpick, Realms Uncharted probably does speed up the deck's clock, by getting both halves of Depths/Stage or whatever other piece you're missing. (Intuition would do the same thing but also grab a Life from the Loam or 3 Ancient Grudge which is real exciting, but not every lands deck can support blue spells.)

Still I don't like the idea of cutting Grudge over it. I'm not even sure I like the idea of running only 3 Grudge. If you're not steamrolling all of your Workshop opponents, playing this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

@brass-man Realms only speeds you up if you already have Loam though. I didn't remember Intuition but boy does it look great if you can reliably pay U.

last edited by fsecco

@brass-man You're absolutely right. I guess when I was writing that I was comparing more to Crop Rotation and the Fastbond effects of the deck, which get cards from library->battlefield and hand->battlefield rather than the library->graveyard of Realms Uncharted. You'll still need the core Life from the Loam to get a real payoff. You could make a point that Realms Uncharted is also library->hand, but when that's for the third and fourth best tutor option it doesn't seem as important or relevant. We can't depend on our opponent misplaying as a strategic strength of Realms Uncharted.

Years ago at a Vintage Champs I played a deck I called Crime and Punishment. I ran Intuition to grab Life from the Loam + Strip Mine + Raven's Crime. The deck was very strong in testing but went like 0-20 in tournament matches that weekend 😄

I could see Grove/Fire getting the axe due to the 21 liability, though PFire seems like the most resilient way to end Planeswalkers though.

Thoughts on using the tiny bit of black in the manabase for a MD Demonic Tutor? Seems pretty decent in any match that you'd likely bring Decays in for.

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