What would freshen up Vintage?

Just wondering what people thought it would take to actually create a massive shift in the vintage format, to the point where we see new innovations. We have seen new decklists and cards cards float in and out of the format over the years, and the majority of the time they don't really change much about the overall of the format. Many are just power level upgrades to existing strategies, bringing back a decktype that was sorta falling out of flavor, etc, but what would it take for something to reshape the landscape of the format?

Personally I think Dredge was the last time the format really got what could be considered a new deck and a format altering list, since it was a list that fundamentally changed the way we played, a list that didn't need power or dual lands or fetches or even force of will. You could play a dredge deck that was 60 cards and it could literally be 60 cards that had no cross over with the 60 you were sitting opposite of, not even basic lands.

Most of the stuff that we get now days that really garners any attention are things that hose popular decks in a profound way, like some speculate dampening sphere will do, or something that is just profoundly powerful like snapcaster mage. They do not create new decks or ways of playing, just reinforce what is already there.

Personally I think it would have to be an effect similar to what some of the digital CCGs are doing, some mechanic that is fairly unprecedented such as a card that came out of your deck at the beginning of the game or other pregame effect. Wondering what other unprecedented concepts people could come up with that are A) possible and B) profound.

I feel like Wizards has gotten a little careful when designing mechanics. Nowadays whenever they make a mistake it is a artifact that is too powerful (looking at you Walking Ballista) or it is a cost reduction speed too high (looking at you Khans delve cards).

I think to really freshen things up and make something completely new they would either need to open up mechanics to more powerful things or they would need to make a new kind of card type similar to when they made planeswalkers. Ether one of these things could really change things up.

Revising the restricted list would freshen up Vintage enough. I would like to see this for starters:


Chalice of the Void
Imperial Seal
Lodestone Golem
Mystical Tutor
Thorn of Amethyst
Vampiric Tutor


Mishra's Workshop

last edited by Griselbrother

@griselbrother I tend to go the other way with this and say unrestrict everything except and ante, and other cards that cannot be played in tournaments, and keep the original power cards restricted (Lotus, Moxes, Sol Ring, Blue cards, Library). Go wild west style and see what is truly overpowered.

I suspect Mentor is not so good against a turn one Trinisphere (insert ghoulish laugh)

  1. Powerful new mechanic that can skirt both Workshop's spheres and Blue's counterspells (e.g. similar to dredge) .
  2. Massive change to the restricted list.
  3. Massive shift in the power level of current prints towards not Blue and not Artifact cards.

Unrestricting Fastbond would be cool. Lands would significantly change the vintage meta. The problem would be with all the new Fastbond decks available. It's hard to turn down hands with Fastbond serveral lands and a major threat that wins the game like Tezzeret or Jace

Guess I missed this thread the first time around, but this is obviously a B&R discussion 😄

As a friendly reminder, all B&R discussion should go in the current B&R announcement thread (or the comments on an article/podcast explicitly about B&R ... a loophole for now 😄 ). Locking this thread, head on over to http://themanadrain.com/topic/1864/april-16-2018-banned-and-restricted-announcement to continue the conversation if desired

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