Blue Brew no more Blue Stew
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I really want a new blue deck that is not Blue Stew. I have been looking at the card pool and I wanted some ideas on what is good now that is different. I have tried PO, LandStill, and other Jace based decks. And, quite frankly, I'm bored.
I do not like BUG or Delver so for Blue I have gone in on Oath builds and playing around with Esper decks.
I want to ask all of you smart people, if you were to build a new deck without looking at any of the other decks and just played a blue based deck what would it look like?
How do I stop playing crap like Mental Misstep and play something more interesting yet winnable?
I have been looking at Tezzerets but none of them are strong enough on their own. The new Karn could fix some of those weaknesses. Is there a broken fun blue deck out there like Mono-Blue painter or Sensei, Sensei, Sensei?
Those decks are awful in today's meta but they were fun. Looking at early Gifts Ungiven builds, they just played broken cards and were very fun to play until they became inbreed.
So, I'm looking to brew and open to any ideas.
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Does it have to be mono blue, that seems like a strange constraint in vintage, where the mana for a second color is pretty easy to make happen.
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@garbageaggro I'm not looking for mono blue, just a brew that is not 4 mental misstep, 4 preordain, 2 dack fayden, 1 treasure cruise, 1 dig through time
I understand any blue deck will have Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Brainstorm, Ponder and 4 FOW.
I want to see some blue deck with any color(s) that is not a stew deck.
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@moorebrother1 said in Blue Brew no more Blue Stew:
1 treasure cruise, 1 dig through time
I would include those two in the same group as the first 8 you have listed. but yeah that is certainly possible. I mean X city Vault does this, Outcome does this, lots of tezzeret lists do this, heck work on dragon.
Do you like combo control, do you like tempo, do you like hard control or combo? What kind of deck do you want to make.
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@garbageaggro That's fair, those cards end up in most of my decks. I may cut Gitaxian Probe depending on the deck but Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time are great value but they promote the cantrip effect.
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Its got some of the 'stew' in there, but I've been playing this for a while and doing decently. (4-0'd a vintage side event @ GPOKC, 3-1-1 a vintage event in Denton, and made t8 of the recent TSI with practically the same list). My main goal is to not lose to shops, hence no MM, 3 MD basics, and 2 MD abrades. 3-1 vs is so far. For me, tinker IS vintage, so I use any excuse I can to play it.
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Abrade
2 Night’s Whisper
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Mana Drain
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Dack Fayden
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Force of Will
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Dig Through Time
SIDEBOARD:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Subterranean Tremors
2 Flusterstorm
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ravenous Trap
1 By Force
1 Echoing Truth
1 Notion Thief
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Mindbreak Trap -
@jonhammack I played this on MTGO and it did ok, I got to 4-1. Still looking for something a bit more out of the box. It's close to your list just white over red (personal preference)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Voltaic Key
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Time Vault
1 Sol Ring
2 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Polluted Delta
2 Island
3 Flooded Strand
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Gush
4 Force of Will
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Dig Through Time
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Balance
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Tinker
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Flusterstorm
3 Mental Misstep
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Strip Mine
2 Mana Drain
1 Plains
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Snapcaster Mage2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Notion Thief
2 Supreme Verdict -
Ah, I interpreted your request as 'outside the meta' more than outside the box. Nothing really comes to mind right now other than some Notion thief based draw 7 deck, akin to steel city vault.
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@jonhammack Is Steel City playable? Maybe a new deck with the new Karn?
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@moorebrother1 Depends on your definition of playable!
It's another version of the all in combo deck (akin to paradoxical, IMO) but at the end of the day its a worse version of paradoxical. -
@jonhammack That's a fair assessment.
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I think there is a kess deck that isn't well explored yet as to what the best version is that is either leaned more toward value or combo depending on composition. I have tested a little with a couple different versions and it is powerful and doesn't require the use of all the cantrips and the standard fair.
The other fun brew-y deck that i played recently that in particular is pretty good against shops is Punishing Fire + Thing in the Ice deck I played at a TSI. The deck was a little slow and could use some tweaking, but aside from playing against pure combo, it felt like it kept up with the format. I would look at interactions like that, that seem powerful in other formats, and build around them, if i were looking to build something different and blue.
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@garbageaggro Thanks for the advice. I have been piecing together info from the different threads that I have started and I think Dragon or the Kess deck or some type of blue deck with a reanimator kill can work.
The hate for graveyard is not being directed at blue and if you can run Hurkyl's Recall for protection against Shops and Paradoxical Outcome then you can race the other blue decks.
I am piecing together a Blue Moon deck but it is starting to look like the rest of the blue stew out there.
I consider this to be true innovator's dilemma.
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What about a Sensei's Top based UWB control deck? Moat with Mystical/Vamp + terminus and entreat...
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@darkquarterer OP wanted to "stop playing crap like Mental Misstep". Jamming 1 mana sorcery speed investments into free, without being able to Misstep the Misstep is a losing proposition over a long event.
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You want to play Misstep because it pairs well with FoW and card draw, which is what blue does. You want to be able to tap out to draw cards and still be able to interact. Even if you don’t play Preordain or delve spells, which is something I’ve done 95% of the time, you still want Mental Missteps.
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I have found kess + whatever cards to be fun. THe other deck that has had some success in legacy is a thieves + punishing fire one. I couldn't find many examples of decks like that in various vintage dbs but i think there is enough power there to handle creatures in these format that it could be worthwhile.
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Playing on MTGO I found that Paradoxical Mentor does not need Mental Misstep but it does need Flusterstorm. The issue is playing Grixis, Esper, or Jeskai do require Mental Missteps for a variety of reasons, but mostly because they are Xerox decks. I see that LandStill plays them and I do not know why since that card hurts the synergy of what you want to accomplish. I guess it protects the factories.
I can see a Blue Moon deck or a Black Blue deck that can get around the Mental Misstep blue stew crap but it takes a lot of work and innovation.
The new Karn paired with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas may provide a path for Black Blue but you have to play discard spells since you do not have access to 4 Chalice of the Void. Maybe Collective Brutality can help with a Lilianna?
The Blue Moon deck can play like a Paradoxical Deck and play through the Mental Missteps or play like an old school Fish deck with some clever creatures similar to the new Brian Kelly BUG deck.
I am looking at Baral, Chief or Compliance. The issue is card draw over card filter. Gift Ungiven is good if you can play it like UR Storm in Modern or how it used to be played back in 2003 but that is very hard to pull off.
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@moorebrother1
If you play Baral, you have to play Mental Misstep to not only gain the looting ability but to also protect him from Plows and Bolts...
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If I were to play Baral it would be as a 4 of in something that started along the lines of:
X Mana Leak
X Nights Whisper
X Negate
XMidirectionThen go from there. Collective Brutality could def work, as well as 4 Cabal Ritual if your talking a storm style build. And in a deck like that Paradoxical Outcome is probably better than gifts.
