@pugsuperstar I have been testing a different twist on this list in paper using liliana of the veil in that capacity. It has been OK.

@ChubbyRain @Brass-Man

Brassman and Chubby,
I'm unsure if this is the correct thread but nonetheless I saw Brassmans decklist for the VSL this week (Chubby Jund... correct?) and would like to re-invigorate this thread.

Personally I feel (perhaps too often) that this particular time is a perfect time for a non-FOW blue deck to actually perform well in the meta.

I've spoken enough previously (http://www.themanadrain.com/topic/1719/blue-jund) relating to the archetype but would love further thoughts.

NBA

P.S. I have not looked at this thread post website design; and it looks amazing. All the separate headings, colour coded etc. well done.

last edited by Guest

Going to do a write up on the Jund archetype but in brief... I cut the Blue to make the mana better and I found Cindervines to be such a house against Xerox shells that you didn't need the Blue Power/Dack. You also don't need FoW as much as you used to as Lavinia punishes FoW and broken strategies. Tarmogoyf is also well positioned and Cindervines/DRS give you a way to beat Xerox Pyromancer, which was Tarmogoyf's greatest weakness. Andy didn't have the best of runs on the VSL but my experience has been positive. From my records:

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This includes two variants: a Green Sun's Zenith variant that is more flexible and has things like main deck Scavenging Ooze against Survival and Dredge; and a Demonic Consultation variant that is more streamlined against Shops, Paradoxical, and Xerox in particular. Win rates were similar.

One thing i've wondered about (and i've been playing 3 Forces is various decks on and off for a good while) in decks like this is, can't we play 2 forces? I don't think it's a card that must be 0 or 4 and i see this as doing a bunch of stuff besides blue stew. But it must increase the chance and diversity at interaction, no? Or give you some opportunities to tap out when needed. Maybe 1% of the time the opponent puts you on a force-less deck and walks into it, heh.

I'm looking at picking this deck up with the cards from War of The Spark and Modern Horions. Does anyone have an opinion on whether Grim Lavamancer is worth playing? How many Force of Vigor and Collector Ouphe are you playing?
Is anyone else Brewing Jund?

last edited by John Cox

Just Jund or with Blue? I'm interested in both variants right now as they are getting several new toys in the new set, though my enthusiasm for Vintage isn't very high since the printing of Narset and Karn.

At the moment "Just Jund". I would like to dodge Narset and blue draws a lot of cards.

Here's an odd question. Would you play straight up R/G beats? I'm trying it and its doing OK.

last edited by John Cox

@john-cox I think the importance of black in vintage jund is primarily found in Dark Confidant.

Previously black pain draw spells were a valid alternative, however Narset makes them much more suspect. Confidant of course dodges her.

Thoughtseize is good. Deathrite is mostly a black creature and infernal reckoning is great right now.

I played Jund in the challenge to a 3-3.

I think one of the things that gets lost is how much better Narset is compared to Dack Fayden or Jace. My deck is loaded with Abrupt Decays, Lightning Bolts, Tarmogoyfs, SB pyroblasts, Assassin's Trophy, other creatures. Removing a planeswalker isn't difficult except when I'm in a losing position already. Narset comes down, digs four cards deep, recoups the card invested, and I have to kill it or it does it again. Dack is a faithless looting in a deck without many graveyard interactions. I had a hellbent opponent slam Dack, mill 2, and then I Pithing Needled the Dack. Jace sees less cards, costs 1 more mana, and can leave the opponent brainstorm locked the next turn.

The Jund deck works because on average your opponent isn't going to find Ancestral, Treasure Cruise, Dig, and all those broken Blue cards every game or the right answers to your threats (nice pyroblasts and flusters). So they have to start trading at a disadvantage for your threats and you can eventually grind them out with Cindervines pressuring their life total or Dark Confidant. Narset is much more effective at chaining those broken Blue cards together or finding the few pieces of relevant removal like Swords to Plowshares.

This was how the challenge felt to me and I went 1-2 against Xerox, where before that felt like a favorable match up.

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