Hollow One



  • @wfain Any Chance of recording some gameplay? I tried picking up the deck but mulligans and sideboarding are hard as hell.
    That being said this deck is exactly what I imagined as a survival deck in vintage soon as hollowone spoiled so thank you for figuring out a list.

    Edit: What are your thoughts on a single memnite to enable low mana vengevine plays?



  • @bleedth3sky I hadn’t consider memnite, could let us make vine off 1 forest. I’ll try one out! Great idea!
    I’m also gonna mess around with Bomat Courier instead of Faithless Looting for a few practice games just for fun.
    Sideboarding can be tricky. Usually shave a Vengevine and a Hollow One until you know which hate to play around. You don’t need Wonder vs anything but Dredge, maybe Shops, and Young Pyromancer decks. I’ll often cut Vamp Tutor against counterspell decks. Forest can go out if your opponent doesn’t have Wasteland.
    I can’t record anything, no. Best I can do is some screen shots. I’ll try to post some tomorrow.



  • @wfain I've been messing around with your list minus Libraryand 1 Dork and am trying running impactful 3-drops to follow up a countered survival. The only two I really found were Dack who plays great with all the creatures and Leovold as a straight hatebear against Bargain storm and PO decks which are very hard to win vs if we don't explode.

    Shops tho no matter what seems unwinnable. Kataki helps but fetching for white then drawing looting sucks and ballista makes sure birds are never around. Ingot chewer isn't good enough when they board into an aggro plan and flood the board so maybe try and jam energy flux's like landstill with ingot chewers to clear spheres? Or is EoT Hurkyls and try and play like storm the plan?

    Teeg also seems really bad vs PO decks as they just go turbo tinker mode and win with blightsteel which teeg doesn't stop.



  • @bleedth3sky I actually beat shops quite often. Usually they aren’t fast enough on the board. I’ve also changed my list a tiny bit. I’ll show it in another post.



  • @bleedth3sky
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ez16Ex765FVYJqBaXMhnGh5CNCf06FyiN6Jv-LKdIKE/edit?usp=sharing

    I've got an image of the deck and some tips in this doc. I'll update it whenever I make changes or think of some tips to add.



  • @wfain I putzed around with this deck on stream tonight, and it's incredibly fun. Please keep us posted on any changes you make and such. I look forward to playing it more in the future!



  • @oestrus Do you have a link to a VOD of the stream? I'm always looking for more vintage streams to watch other than VSL or The Atog Lord himself on youtube.



  • @bleedth3sky I played two or three matches with the deck towards the end of this stream. Otherwise, I'll try doing a full League or two sometime this week.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/255970951



  • I gotta be honest, I'm not in love with the Recall, Time Walk, and the Tutors. But I'm also not sure what I would replace them with. Street Wraith, perhaps? I don't know.



  • @oestrus I like them all tho have never cast Time walk in the deck yet. I personally run 3 street wraiths instead of his bomats and memnite since I just dont have bomats. You could go for a grindy build with 4 returning squee 4 bazaar and 4x bloodghasts take after modern hollowvine on crack with bazaar? Probably go heavier in black and run some Gurmags then too and a leovold main.



  • also nothing feels quite as good as winning with 3 rootwalla's attacking on t3 with Deathrite backup and gaea's cradle to boost. Vintage tis a silly place.



  • Y’all don’t take what I’m doing as gospel. I’m not working with anyone really- so I can’t possibly have it tuned all the way. Try other cards if you don’t like some choices. Just let us know!



  • I've seen a lot of this deck in Vintage Leagues lately - four times in my last three leagues.

    Some things others are doing:

    1. More Bazaars, fewer one-of creatures. Going all-in on Rootwalla/Vengevine
    2. Not splashing blue, adding things like crop rotation instead
    3. Playing mental misstep main to get away from some hate

    Not sure if any of those are correct, but thought it might expand the discussion.



  • @tigersbadger interesting. Crop Rotation seems like absolute garbage to me. I could never imagine playing it. I could be convinced to go back to 4 Bazaar though. I had 4 in my first iteration when I was practicing but I didn’t like having so many. Maybe it’s the way I play the deck but I don’t use Bazaar unless I know I can make ~6 power. The deck can’t really afford to bleed cards when you aren’t sure what’s going to happen imo. Granted you do want a Bazaar or a Survival in your opener so maybe 4 Bazaar is correct.
    Others have mentioned not loving the blue cards, but I definitely can’t imagine playing without Wonder.
    As for Misstep- I’m not sure why it matters? Cage isn’t that good- you just make Rootwala and Hollow One the plan unless you find an Ingot Chewer. I suppose if you play vs a lot of UWx with 3/4 StP maybe you’d want MM.

    I’d love to hear other’s explanations of why they like those different things.



  • @bleedth3sky We're a bit slower than most decks already, so I'm not sure going grindy is where we want to be. I think if anything, we want to be more explosive.



  • I liked Breakthrough a lot when I was trying this deck type. I'm a bit surprised no one incorporated that in their updated builds. It's pretty solid. I don't think I would play 4 like I had in my trial runs a few months ago but I still would have a few if I revisited this archetype.



  • @trius It's an interesting card, especially since we have access to cradle, which should mitigate the downside.



  • Just posted 4-1 with the list currently on the google doc.
    And had the pleasure of watching @hierarchnoble 4-1 with the original list tonight as well!



  • I've been thinking about Time Walk and it seems like the best case is pass turn with some hollow ones and vengevines out but in most cases its an explore plus untap. Now that might be good enough but most combo turns I never have extra mana and taking up 2 mana in early game turns is hard to do and still be productive in comboing.

    Also is Ancient grudge worth looking into instead of Ingot Chewer in the main as it can be tossed to Bazaar and is better vs shops since Thorn and Chalice have been restricted (IMO).

    I for one am foregoing White entirely as I don't own containment Priests and running a second Trop helps cast leovold easier which is a super potent SB option vs Outcome decks. I have had people scoop to t2 leovold when there hand is a turbo PO only hand.

    edit: Although I don't know how to beat oath now; Golgari Charm maybe and run a second bayou instead of trop? -1/-1 is super good vs monk young peezy tokens and regenerate it pretty much useless with toxic deluge being the go to sweeper. Or just run Abrupt decays in the side?



  • @wfain said in Hollow One:

    Just posted 4-1 with the list currently on the google doc.
    And had the pleasure of watching @hierarchnoble 4-1 with the original list tonight as well!

    Thanks for creating this deck! It's an absolute monster.

    The replay can be found here. A bunch of audio is cut out because I didn't set out to make a replay-friendly stream while sick. I was also not playing particularly well, both due to being sick, but also since this was my first league with the deck.

    Matchups went as follows:
    Storm: 2-0
    Workshop Aggro: 2-0
    Merfolk: 2-0
    Workshop Aggro: 1-2
    Landstill: 2-1

    My initial takeaway from that list was that Reflector Mage was incredibly greedy on the mana and Vampiric Tutor might need to be cut for something with less card disadvantage. Some of the issues with the deck have already been acknowledged in the updated list in the Google doc. Thanks again to @wfain for stopping by to drop some Survival knowledge and everyone that came by to watch!


 

WAF/WHF