@bazaarofbaghdad said in MTGO:

@chronatog MTGO prizes are in digital objects of no value. Only if you "cash out" do you realize reportable income. FWIW, when I sold off $7500 worth of digital cards last year, I reported those on my taxes.

Stocks in ones brokerage account are also digital objects. However, they have value. Many so-called crypto-currency investors learned in a painful way that their tokens also have value.

Since everything on MTGO is valued in tickets and, to my knowledge, one ticket is one dollar as WotC sells tickets at this price, perhaps there is a preponderance of evidence indicating that digital objects on MRGO have value.

Anyway, I'm not arguing about how it should be. I'm trying to understand how it is now or can be in the nearest future. Magic is a hobby and as any hobby it cost money and time, but provides some economic utility. So that's alright to spend money on your hobby directly or indirectly through taxes. It's not right to create any complications with the IRS.

Is there any official explanation from WotC?

@bazaarofbaghdad said in MTGO:

I wouldn't treat it as income unless it actually were income.

I wouldn't too :). But it's up to the IRS ;). I'm surprised there is no clarity on this from WotC.

@chronatog WotC has clarified over and over again that the ticket has no market value. I'm fairly certain you agree to such when you agree to the end-use license agreement. Just because you have the power to unload such on ebay or paypal doesn't mean you have the right. Of course, just because WotC says something is of no value, doesn't mean the IRS won't determine otherwise, but until the IRS does, WotC has no interest in stating otherwise.

Is it me or are there less people playing in the Leagues? 85 people currently.

The league is just an awful experience. I had stopped for many weeks and tried again last night and just cannot stand playing there. I'm going to finish this one and I'm done. I just hate it. And the challenge is even worse, I cannot give up an entire Saturday afternoon to sit in front of a computer with no personal interaction.

@oestrus It goes up over time - since it reset at the last downtime, we'll see >100 numbers for a bit, then it will grow as people become stagnant until the league is reset again in June.

The overall time it takes to get an opponent is pretty consistent with what I'm used to.

After being a paper Vintage player since 2008 I've finally hit the point where I prefer the online client to paper tournaments. I'm still planning on attending high-profile events, with the TMD Open being just on the horizon, and a private tournament series that takes place at a friend's house, but beyond that I don't find happiness in attending in-store events. I'm lucky enough to live fifteen minutes away from the face of the North American Eternal Weekend, yet I can't be bothered to get in my car and drive there. There are many reasons for this:

  1. Event frequency - I can join a League any day of the week and Challenges on a weekly basis. My LGS has events monthly, which leads to less opportunities to play. If other social plans interfere with that particular Saturday I'm out one of my twelve yearly opportunities to play Vintage locally.

  2. Collection fluidity - I sold out of paper back in 2013. That was my own mistake, but one that made sense at the time. Therefore, in 2018, I have to play Vintage with a smaller overhead. This means that I can't own more than one deck at a time, but given the frequency of events that's not nearly as much of a problem as it sounds. What is a problem, however, is when I go to make the jump from one archetype to another. This process takes an extraordinarily large amount of time. I spent two hours at my LGS on Thursday and didn't even leave with everything I was looking to buy into due to their limited inventory. Even then, my cards got me 50% of their face value in order to pay the store overhead. On MODO, my cards get me 90% of their value minimum and I can swap one deck into another in five minutes. In the future I'll try swapping cards by selling to stores online, but that doesn't alleviate concerns regarding card values.

  3. Atmosphere - At home, I can easily boot up my favorite music, TV show or Twitch stream in the background and just hang out. In person, I get to hang out with my friends, as long as they're not knee-deep in a match. However, an LGS needs to make money, and oftentimes they double book Vintage Saturdays with more popular formats. This creates a situation where I have to deal with players from other games, children, or just a glut of humanity in the narrow aisles of the retail space. It's a tough call which option wins out.

  4. Lost cost - When I travel to events, I have to write off gas, tolls, and supplies. Sleeves break, after all. Obviously I have to pay for home internet to play online or buy a computer that can run the client, but I can use both of those things for other purposes. Honestly, I started streaming with the hardware that I had just lying around, no frills.

This is my personal anecdote, and the experience of playing Vintage on either platform varies from person to person. We all have our reasons.

@hierarchnoble You are indeed correct this gets into personal preference. I work in front of a computer for 10 - 12hrs a day and the last thing I want to do is get back in front of a computer.

I find being around people very necessary part of my enjoyment in playing Magic. I never sold any significant portion of my cards.

Magic has helped me in some of the hardest moments in my life as a very necessary escape. It was also a reason my grades slipped in college and sometimes a distraction at work.

I need to interact with people to feel that this it is worth it for me. I have video games that I can play and I have other hobbies that I can do.

Without the people, then I would just find another hobby that requires interacting with people. I am a runner and that is solo activity, I do not need another solo activity in my life.

That's my perspective on why paper is so important.

last edited by moorebrother1

Please don't take my post as a personal attack worthy of rebuttal, @moorebrother1. I was merely adding my own anecdote since it dealt with the topic at hand.

@hierarchnoble I get it, we are all in different places in life. If MTGO works you that is great. It is just not working great for me.

I'm sorry for trying to treat this like a MODO thread and not like a " @moorebrother1 hates MODO and wants to remind everyone constantly" thread. I'll make no further comments.

last edited by Guest

It should be pretty self evident that some people like MTGO and some people don't. If we can't come up with anything more useful to chat about the subject, this probably doesn't need to be a thread.

For the longest time, I have considered buying into MTGO. Today, this is still something that I am on the fence about. The buy-in cost is irrelevant. My two big inhibitions are time, and potential enjoyment factor. The challenge that I have always had, and continue to have, is overcoming the ever-discussed game client limitations, and losing some of the aspects of the game that appeal the most to me (i.e. the people aspect). Streamers constantly berate MTGO, but, by virtue that they keep playing (and streaming), things are not potentially as bad as they make them out to be.

My question for people is: does the fun outweigh the frustration or vice versa, and why?

@hierarchnoble This was never meant to be the I hate MODO thread. I see value in it, but I wanted honesty about what it is. There are a lot of players out there like me, who have accumulated cards over the years but because of family and work do not have as much time to play.

I thought that playing MODO would provide me with some missing outlet and help give me more insight into playing Magic.

And it has, but I am also trying to honest for people like @rbartlet that playing MODO may give you more access to playing Magic but you lose something too.

I think being honest will help people decide if it is the right place for them to play. I actually played 3 formats when I started out and I had planned on playing Modern.

I invested time and money to figure out how to win, and I was learning the client. But for me, it was just never fun. I have to admit that it was fun when I would just play for practice to try out new decks but the more competitive parts of the MODO just make me mad.

My complaints are not with the client or the clunky play but mostly with the interactions with players or the lack thereof.

The truth is that MODO has made me a better player and it has changed the way I view the game.

last edited by moorebrother1

@rbartlet If you are practicing for tournaments, or want to jam games at all hours, there is nothing better.

I've also had a lot of fun streaming MTGO. Gives it a real social aspect.

Yes MTGO sucks and it's fun to dunk on it. But there's nothing else really comparable to it.

Also I agree with @Brass-Man that this thread is a bit repetitive...

last edited by nucleosynth
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