Vintage Feelings


  • TMD Supporter

    When I first came into vintage, it was a new world with new (old) cards that I’ve never gotten to play. I got to play power! Cards I said I never said I would ever own, let alone play. I was excited, I was thrilled, trying out this new world. People were classy and nice to me – people like Joe Fiorini who helped me pick out my first deck. I got to know people, I got to make new friends, and I discovered a local tournament across state. I was enamored by what I perceived to be a group of mature, helpful people. There were some bad apples in the group, but what group of people doesn’t have that?

    Things changed at some point. I can’t pinpoint the exact time, but I started to notice people weren’t as nice as I initially thought.

    I’m guessing the rose tinted glass came off. People dogged my ideas, my decks, people that enjoy the VSL, and the didn't seem to have any interest in vintage’s growth. Hell, I’ve been told that I shouldn’t voice my opinion, because I don’t play as often as other people do. That my opinion meant nothing. Some people promote their Meta and group of players as the authority on the format. Kind of like an old school boys club.

    For example, I’ve been told multiple times that I should not play Painter decks, because Painter is a bad card. I’ve always recognized Painter is not a tier 1 strategy (or tier 2 for that matter), but it’s where I have the most fun. That didn’t matter to these people. They had the attitude if you aren’t playing a tier 1 deck, you’re doing vintage wrong.

    On a side note, I would argue Painter is a good card and Grindstone is a bad card. I just love how Painter interacts with the game at an angle no other card does, so I will continue to play the card because I have fun with it. I am certainly not a tier 1 skilled player and I'm under no delusion I will win a major tournament with this deck. I just want to play what I want to play. I'll admit, this does go against the part of me that wants to win and getting enjoyment only out of winning, so I do have internal conflict with myself on this, but that's another topic for another day.

    B/R discussions are train wreck syndrome for me. They are broken, ugly, and dirty, but I can’t help but stare.

    It’s why I rarely post anymore on the Facebook group or the Mana Drain at this point in time. I’ve been told by people to ignore it, to not let it bother me, but that’s just not the type of person I am. I’ve done the best I can by just turning off all notifications from the Vintage Facebook group unless I feel inclined to post on the site. I still support the Mana Drain, because I believe in the site and what it is. I just see myself viewing the site less and less over time. 95 percent of my viewing of this site anymore is it's still my homepage on my browser, so technically I visit it because of that. Heh.

    I have honestly gotten to the point at times where I contemplated (though immediately not that seriously) about selling out. I don’t plan to do it, but it’s a thought that crossed my mind, which in the past it never did.

    Don’t get me wrong, I still love the format. It's still my favorite. If it wasn’t for the people like Andy Probasco ( @Brass-Man ), Ben Perry ( @Shaman-Ben ), Kevin Cron ( @CHA1N5 ), Aaron Katz, and many others, I may have walked away from the format. They make vintage what I envision vintage to be. A fun format where I get to sling the most powerful cards in the format's history.

    I probably talk to Andy and Ben more about my personal life than anybody else in the vintage community (whether they like it or not haha), because they make me feel comfortable and welcoming.

    The best times I’ve had in vintage have actually not been the games (though they have been awesome), but some of the dinners I had after a tournament where everybody has gotten together that played. We joked, we discuss our mistakes, the Meta, where we think things are going, and whatever else. There is no anger, there is no venom, no judging, just people being good people. Those moments have been a blast and put such a huge smile on my face. Those moments remind me why I love vintage.

    Sometimes I do believe I love talking strategy, card selections, mana curves, side boarding, more than I actually do enjoy playing the game. I love playing the game, but I find it so much fun talking the game, which is why I think I get along so well with Andy (@Brass-Man).

    Maybe part of these issues I have is my anxiety issues and OCD issues. Maybe I take things out of context sometimes (I’m sure I have) and have said some stupid things. I’m sure that’s part of my reasoning, but I think it would be foolish to put the whole stock on what I’ve felt to be because of that. At best it would be a small percentage.

    I just think as a community we can do a better job of welcoming people to the format. Honestly, I’ve been at fault myself for making mistakes and getting into petty arguments and being part of the problem. This is not a call out to everybody else and not me, I’m not perfect myself. Maybe its wishful thinking that we could grow as a community, but it’s still something that should all strive for.



  • Sounds like you're looking for fulfillment or satisfaction. You're not going to find it in Magic, Vintage, or discussions thereon. As great as they are, they're niche-fillers at best. Take them for what they do offer, ignore the bad parts, and above all, don't let them drag you down or create new voids. It's easy for me to set Magic (Vintage) as some Mount Everest that I must climb to the pinnacle, but when I step back, I can see that's not who I am.

    Find peace, Mark.


  • TMD Supporter

    @bazaarofbaghdad

    In general, I have a great life. Amazing wife, family, and friends. This irritation mostly is just magic. Doesn’t mean there isn’t some kind of fulfillment I need (not sure), just wanted to be clear.

    But it’s taken me a while to get a point of feeling the need to post that. Mostly out of venting.



  • The issue with feelings in Magic is that we are so inundated with Data that either your "feeling" about something is based in statistical fact or it's instantly dismissed and possibly even ridiculed. I feel ya man, and it's a shame that it has devolved to this.



  • My feelings in Vintage are directly proportional to the amount of Mental Misstep. Same thing when it was in Legacy.



  • @nedleeds If you just started playing mental misstep, you could use it to counter all the missteps that are keeping it down. The solution is probably more missteps not less. Think of mental misstep as Malort. Sure Malort is terrible, especially if you just sample it occasionally or have some asshole force it on you. But if you get your own bottle, and you start forcing it on others, before long you find that it is not only fulfilling, but actually rather enjoyable.

    Mental Misstep, the Malort of Counter Magic.


  • TMD Supporter

    I think we all get to this point from time to time with Magic. I know I personally haven't played much competitive Magic over the last year or two (babies, kids, life, time, etc), but I still enjoy following it. Whereas I used to get to play competitive-casual about once a month when in Boston for business, they stopped doing it at the local store (sheds tear).

    That said, I was finding myself drifting to other types of Magic when I was able to get my occasional "me day" when I was at home on a saturday. A lot of people say "step back, take a break," and I've found that other formats can be a nice breather. I personally have never played Modern or Standard a day in my life, but I've found going to pre-releases to be TREMENDOUS fun. Especially if you have a good store with a good crowd. 2-headed giant pre-releases are even more fun, if you have someone to play with.

    I've also found myself, when given a day to play Magic, to find playing cube draft with my friends to be my Magic of choice. I'll always play Vintage, and when life settles down a little and I have more time (there is certainly a correlation between frequent competitive play and success), I'll start going to the odd tournament or two again. But in the meantime, I am opting for pre-releases or cube for now. But I have no doubts I'll be back at some point. So I'd recommend trying a different format or environment for now, take a breath, and when you feel the clutches of Vintage pulling you back, come running with open arms :)

    I would however caution against "selling out." I've said it before on here, but I think the prices of Vintage have a reached a point, that if you sell out, you might not ever come back, and that would be a shame. If nothing else, keep your duals and lotus (and a mox or two), so at least it's not too overwhelming should you decide to. It's way too high of a mountain to climb to power yourself up again ($10k?), and even moreso when you've already owned the cards before.


  • TMD Supporter

    @joshuabrooks No worries, I'm not about to sell out unless something personally bad happens (like I'm about to lose my house, I can' feed my family, someone in my family is really sick, that kind of thing). It was a thought that crossed my mind after the frustrations with the vintage community.

    I do love Vintage and there are some people here that make up for the negativity.

    I do generally play other formats. The format I actually play the most is EDH/Commander. I play that most days at work with a few coworkers and generally have a blast playing. Especially when we get together after work and shoot the shit. Nothing like playing some games with a few friends bullshitting the whole time.

    I do still enjoy following magic. I love watching videos on Channel fireball, catching player streams, and watching Pro Tours/SCG/Grand Prixs.

    I really want to try out cube. I'm going to actually proxy the whole Vintage Online Cube (edit it as I go along) and try to get some friends together to jam it. I have no feeling to build the whole cub out with real cards. Maybe one day, but I'll need to own more than one dual land (a bayou).



  • @shaman-ben said in Vintage Feelings:

    @nedleeds If you just started playing mental misstep, you could use it to counter all the missteps that are keeping it down. The solution is probably more missteps not less. Think of mental misstep as Malort. Sure Malort is terrible, especially if you just sample it occasionally or have some asshole force it on you. But if you get your own bottle, and you start forcing it on others, before long you find that it is not only fulfilling, but actually rather enjoyable.

    Mental Misstep, the Malort of Counter Magic.

    alt text


  • TMD Supporter

    Posting here to remind myself to enter the discussion when I have more time


  • TMD Supporter

    I've been pretty burned out lately. It's super hard to find the time and energy to play (sometimes when I have free time I'm so tired that I don't want to play). I used to play and write my articles during late nights and early mornings, but that is just too much for me now.

    Once things get a bit better I will be back to my old self. I still think that the format and community is a great thing.



  • Vintage burned me out after Eternal Weekend - I spent a LOT of time preparing (which showed with my 10th place), but I just found myself disinterested with Vintage afterwords.

    I actually built some Pauper decks, played Old School (Budget MonoBlack for First Place out of 55 in Madison) and built a Modern deck.

    I lost a love in Vintage lately, but I found a new love of just playing magic.

    I will be back to Vintage in the spring as I prepare for NYSE.


  • TMD Supporter

    @13nova I could never see myself spending so much time preparing and exhausting myself on a format. While I'm sure my place would greatly improve, I would lose interested and get bored easily.

    I love vintage and I want to play it when I get a chance, but I never want to get to the place where I'm playing it constantly. I like my vintage being a sometimes thing. It's possible part of that is I don't have a super local community and I have to drive hours to go to a tournament and when you are doing 3-5 hours for a tournament, that doesn't want me to play often. That is just exhausting. I love the people though.

    I've been finding I love magic in general myself. I play a lot of EDH, I'm starting to dabble into pauper (and loving it- I thought it was going to be this magic light format, but it's really not). I'm pleasantly surprised how awesome pauper has been when I've played it.

    I still want to play at champs and I want to do well. I just couldn't put in the efforts that the most skilled players do.



  • @mdkubiak Pay attention to my twitter - either tonight or tomorrow I'll post my pauper and modern lists. Hint, a whole lot of squiggling, and not many (note: 0) english letters.


  • TMD Supporter

    @13nova said in Vintage Feelings:

    Vintage burned me out after Eternal Weekend - I spent a LOT of time preparing (which showed with my 10th place), but I just found myself disinterested with Vintage afterwords.

    “Disinterested” does not mean “uninterested.”

    In any case I understand your sentiment and share it to some extent. Although I like the vintage leagues, I haven’t played more than a few matches since vintage champs.

    For me the bigger issue is that I haven’t played in a vintage challenge since I think June. Going from a monthly to a weekly cycle has deflated my interest almost entirely. I would make a much stronger effort to play if it was once a month.


  • TMD Supporter

    People in the vintage community have been trashing non traditional ideas since I started playing this format competitively in 2003.

    This website, for example, used to be so toxic with it's moderation, they basically chased everyone away and all that was left was just that small clique of clowns who really just wanted to shit on people together.

    The best advice I can give is to keep holding on to the closest personal connections you have made in the community, the rest are just superficial and just want to be friends with you because you are a good magic player or a "personality."

    The tournaments themselves have really become the worst part of vintage. The dinner afterwards, the car pool ride home, hanging out with people you see once a year, those are all experiences that can't be replaced.


  • TMD Supporter

    @juggernaut-go I cannot speak to what occurred years ago. I've only been here since @Brass-Man was running TMD and @Islandswamp introduced me into my first vintage deck (Grixis Thieves baby).

    There is a certainly a level of cliques in vintage or anything like that for that matter (lets be honest there, it's true). I think to a point, most people can be at least a little bit at fault on this (except me... yeah... yeah), as we can be a bit protective (if not over protective) of our true friends and playgroups in vintage. In all seriousness, I do value my local play group a lot and wouldn't change that part of vintage. It's what keeps me going, otherwise, I would probably cash in my vintage collection and just play other formats.

    Finding my wife and starting building a life with her as changed things for me. I haven't lost my interest in magic per say, but the time I have allotted to playing magic and focusing on it (a common problem, I'm sure). I have time to watch streams more than I have had time to play, which I actually do love doing (even if for 5-15 minutes). That's why pauper in itself has started to interest me. It's super cheap, I can play online when I have time, and I don't have to fork over 500 dollars to play a deck I'm interested in. It's actually quite the in depth format in itself too with some excellent game play, much more than some people realize.

    @Smmenen What vintage leaks are you referring too?



  • @Smmenen Correct. I am not uninterested in Vintage, but I am disinterested.

    Uninterested would suggest I am not paying any attention to Vintage or have no care for vintage.

    Disinterested suggests that I am just currently not influenced by Vintage.

    I will be back to Vintage (Around NYSE most likely) but for now I'm playing more Modern.


  • TMD Supporter

    @13nova what are you playing in modern?



  • I started out this year pumped about Vintage. I have a unique spot in life to put more time into playing and I want to play at a very high level.

    I put out a post about a month ago on how to become a better player and one piece of advice was to play MTGO.

    I tried it and it is killing my love of the game. I think that I'm a paper player and I like player interaction when it comes to playing cards.

    I like thinking about the possible in this game and not focusing of limits. There are so many decks that I have built and never played because of the meta-game and I'm ok with that.

    I have never really considered selling out on paper but I am ready to sellout online. I'm not sure if it is similar to your feelings but when I lose to Ben ( @Shaman-Ben ), Kevin Cron ( @CHA1N5 ) or any of the other people I play in person I know I was out played, and I'm good with that.

    I am hating playing online because I do not get that interaction or any feeling of fulfillment just frustration.


 

WAF/WHF

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.