New Vintage Player
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Hello Mana Drain! Very cool to discover this community. First post here.
I am just getting back into magic, and have decided to play vintage & legacy- I have some random (noob) questions for you guys.
Some backstory-- 34/M Los Angeles area. I used to play in the 90s, got back into it a couple of months ago. I am just 2 moxes shy of building paper Workshops
This version ( https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/vintage-ravager-shops-33092#paper )-
Do most of you guys play the actual power / expensive cards? Was going to double sleeve with the perfect fit and regular sleeve on top of that-- is that crazy? Should I just be using proxy even though I have the cards (I know this is a subjective topic but is double sleeve protection sufficient / there a norm or consensus on this topic?)
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On the workshops deck I am referencing above, is there some basic primers/write-ups/videos that walk through more nuanced lines & combos? I really like the deck and the quick mana + making things more expensive for others seems obvious- however, I am wondering if there is more than meets the eye combo/strategy wise I'm missing due to lack of experience with the deck.
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Is knightware the only spot in Los Angeles that has regular vintage matches? I see most of them are tournaments- I am still getting back into it, and vintage seems to have a lot of nuanced interactions. Can I go and play even if a bit rusty from not playing in awhile?
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In Legacy I really enjoy the prison/mana denial/ tabernacle/ life of loam combos of Lands- would a lands/shops mash up vintage deck even make sense or be viable?
Thanks again! Excuse the newbie questions- excited to get back into the game!
Best,
Nate -
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- Do most of you guys play the actual power / expensive cards? Was going to double sleeve with the perfect fit and regular sleeve on top of that-- is that crazy? Should I just be using proxy even though I have the cards (I know this is a subjective topic but is double sleeve protection sufficient / there a norm or consensus on this topic?)
Everyone I knows double sleeves. Some have switched to using the Perfect Hard inner sleeve. Most people who are fortunate enough to own Power also like to play with them (after all, that's what they were meant for).
- On the workshops deck I am referencing above, is there some basic primers/write-ups/videos that walk through more nuanced lines & combos? I really like the deck and the quick mana + making things more expensive for others seems obvious- however, I am wondering if there is more than meets the eye combo/strategy wise I'm missing due to lack of experience with the deck.
There is a lot of strategy and tactics to Ravager Shops. There's nothing like play experience. Google should find you lots of articles.
- Is knightware the only spot in Los Angeles that has regular vintage matches? I see most of them are tournaments- I am still getting back into it, and vintage seems to have a lot of nuanced interactions. Can I go and play even if a bit rusty from not playing in awhile?
Yes. I think Berkeley is the next closest. Just come and play. It's a great friendly environment. People will help you with advice if you ask. There are new players, returning players, and regular players. You can pick up some games if you arrive early too.
- In Legacy I really enjoy the prison/mana denial/ tabernacle/ life of loam combos of Lands- would a lands/shops mash up vintage deck even make sense or be viable?
Thanks again! Excuse the newbie questions- excited to get back into the game!
Best,
NateWelcome back!
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Go to the YOUTUBES and watch some of the old ETERNAL WEEKEND matches. Lots of Ravager shops decks on camera, especially in the semi and quarter and final matches of 2017. You will see Rich Shay and Andrew markiton play the ravager shops build, and both are considered some of the best pilots of that build.
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I would also point out that there has been a vintage lands deck or two floating around in the past couple months. I won't vouch for how good they are, but there have been people trying to make that work.
2 card Muddy is also a variant of the 2 card monte deck (painter's servant+grindstone/helm + leyline) combo that is more artifact/prison focused with the combo finish that also has/can run the dark depths combo.
This might be a lot of information @mediumsteve has played a couple variant of the 2 card muddy deck. Also @EmoPizza has played a lands list a couple times, as has @briba20 (who helped invent the deck).
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Welcome to TMD Timewalker! We're super glad to have you here
Do most of you guys play the actual power / expensive cards? Was going to double sleeve with the perfect fit and regular sleeve on top of that-- is that crazy? Should I just be using proxy even though I have the cards (I know this is a subjective topic but is double sleeve protection sufficient / there a norm or consensus on this topic?)
Double-sleeving with perfect fits is pretty common in the vintage community. Personally I keep all of my vintage cards (expensive or cheap) in perfect-fits while they're being stored, and just swap out the outer sleeves for deckbuilding. A handful of people out there triple-sleeve in some way or another. It's not as common, but nobody will look at you funny for doing it. Vintage players are used to people being protective of their cards. (On that note, as a legacy player you probably already do this, but be EXTRA careful when shuffling your opponents deck. Don't riffle, etc)
Personally, if I'm going to a more low-key event that allows a full-proxy deck using paper-print-out-in-sleeve proxies, I'll just proxy the whole thing. If I'm going to a larger event that requires proxies to be sharpie-on-basic-land, I'll play the real cards ... though more and more I've been considering proxying whenever possible, as power gets prohibitively expensive to carry around with me.
On the workshops deck I am referencing above, is there some basic primers/write-ups/videos that walk through more nuanced lines & combos?
The total-beginners-guide is here http://themanadrain.com/topic/1396/workshop-aggro . It sounds like your'e already a little familiar with the deck, so a lot of that might be obvious for you, but it should be a real quick read. A few similar guides can be found at http://themanadrain.com/tags/archetype if you want a high level view of what people are playing right now (though maybe a little incomplete - we're working on it!)
Off the top of my head I don't know of any more advanced guides for shop players. I wrote up http://themanadrain.com/topic/993/the-mod-squad-decklist-and-primer a while ago, which is a little dated now, but does list out a few specific synergies (not that Animation Module really caught on with anyone else).
Definitely feel free to ask any specific questions here, or make new threads for them.
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my experience playing 2cardmuddy aka shops depths hasn't been great since thorn restriction. but dark depths has a lot of merits nowadays, and it's possible that there is a more refined, consistent list that could be made.
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Thank you guys for all the great input!
