Brass Man last edited by
Tutor for [[Energy Flux]], [[Rest in Peace]], and [[Stony Silence]] feel like vintage-quality plays against Workshops, Dredge, and Outcome respectively. It finds both halves of the [[Time Vault]] / [[Voltaic Key]] combo (or [[Painter's Servant]] / [[Grindstone]] or [[Leyline of the Void]] / [[Helm of Obedience]] )
What else can we do with it?
More directly, what relevant plays can we make with an [[Enlightened Tutor]] against more controlling decks, like Xerox, BUG, or Landstill. Finding [[Grafdigger's Cage]] against Oath feels underwhelming, but serviceable. Finding [[Sylvan Library]] feels painfully slow (you don't get to draw any cards for two turns after you cast the tutor).
Are there any artifacts or enchantments in these matchups that are worth losing a card to find them?
Solemnity is now a 2 part combo with Dark Depths. Also works well in conjunction with Illusions of Grandeur and Mystic Remora and Ancestral Knowledge, all also Tutorable.
Topical_Island last edited by Topical_Island
@brass-man Finding Lotus in anything running Bomberman, and finding Oath itself in Bomberman Oath (I've tried it in this build, and eventually cut it for just running Vamp Tutor, but it's for sure playable there). It's also useful in terms of finding Jewelry in general, especially Mox Saph in decks where you run Paradoxical (Mox Saph making Paradoxical truly mana plus in many cases by providing a repeatable blue source.)
And not to be snarky, but it can eat a Misstep in decks where you really want to be able to win that 1 level sub game. For example, in a Bomberman deck, a lot of times you need to stick the Salvagers and have him live on the table for a turn or more. Swords is a huge problem. Even if you are holding a Misstep of your own, it's very possible to see Salvagers get erased via a line where they Swords, we Misstep, and then they Misstep back. Leading with EOT Enlightened Tutor, gives us a game theory advantage here. If they Misstep, then it's much less likely that they have another Misstep. If they don't Misstep, then it's at least a little less likely that they have Misstep at all. If you still want more info, maybe get a Sensei's Top and play that, and run the 1 level test again. If still no Misstep, then barring a pair of Swords in their hand, we can probably stick a Salvagers on the board now if we are backing it with a Misstep of our own.
(Anyway, I hate what I see as the Misstep overpopulation problem, and I don't think that's a secret, but Enlightened Tutor actually interacts with our own, and with opposing Missteps in an interesting and potentially beneficial way... much moreso than it is sometimes portrayed: as being simply unplayable due to the preponderance of Missteps in the ecosystem.)
fsecco last edited by fsecco
If Probe was unrestricted I could see it being better. But I feel having to give PO, Oath or Dredge one more turn before you hit them with hate might be too late.
It can also find Moat (which is not as good as it is last year but who knows).
In Depths it can find both Solemnity and Mirage Mirror and also Depths via Expedition Map so it seems great there.
Brass Man last edited by
It's really hard for me to see any of the 2 card combos (including those that I mentioned) as anything other than worse versions of Vault/Key ... are there artifacts/enchantments I'm missing that are worth tutoring against blue decks and don't need another support card?
Brass Man last edited by Brass Man
And not to be snarky, but it can eat a Misstep ...
This paragraph doesn't sound snarky to me ... it just sounds like the way good players think about Misstep. I'm honestly a little confused how you can see that and then also think there's an overpopulation problem, but we can leave any meta-metagame concerns to PM, or at least threads outside the Strategy section
Chronatog last edited by
albarkhane last edited by
One can also get tormod's crypt/relic/bomb against dredge.
I am not sure there is one special great bomb to get with that tutor but its versality may make it interesting : one can get with it a hate card for about every matchup. This is a nice toolbox (but i don't know if it is really needed, blue decks may have already enough digging effects to get reliably enough their tools when needed ?)
BazaarOfBaghdad last edited by
People often side out Vampiric against Blue so not likely to fit in that matchup. I've always thought of E.T.'s role in Vintage as a sideboard space enabler against linear decks without counterspells. Like ET, Dredge Hate, Shops Hate, instead of 2 of 1 and only 1 of the other. Besides this role, for E.T. to be good, the target would have to be indestructible or uncounterable or be usable from the graveyard, but nothing really fits the bill. Or an STP-resistant artifact or enchantment creature, but again, nothing.
Topical_Island last edited by Topical_Island
@brass-man Yeah... No worries on that discussion. It seems humanly, if not outright mathematically impossible to say anything I haven't said already about Misstep on this site. And if anything is more overpopulated than Misstep, it's my posts on this site...
Something I wanted to ask you about, were your thoughts on the interaction between, (and this might be a stretch,) Enlightened Tutor and Mana Drain.
It seems like the general feeling is that taxing effects, and fast, aggro decks have severely decreased the effectiveness of Mana Drain. I buy that to a point, but my feeling is that big blue really lacks deck manipulation instants in the vein of Brainstorm to plat EOT. Playing a second blue source and saying go, is way way better when, if your opponent does nothing, you get to EOT spend that mana on something. You get to kind of terrorize the opponent into a virtual mana advantage, by forcing the opponent to choose between playing through Mana Drain, or doing nothing and watching while you EOT deck manipulate them into the dust.
These days, the Brainstorm restriction makes that impossible, and Mana Drain is kinda lamely positioned. Now my feeling is that Brainstorm is way, way better than Enlightened Tutor, but I guess my question to you or... really to anyone, is to what extent do you think some combination of 1x Brainstorm, 1x Vamp, and ?x Enlightened could do that job in a big blue deck under present conditions?
Fisken last edited by
Impulse and telling time are the cards your looking for to punish people for not wanting to play into a potential drain. It’s a strategy that I’ve employed for years and was the backbone of the jacestorm deck in 2010 my splinter twin deck from 2 years and now the saheeli combo deck I mess around with
fsecco last edited by
Back to Basics or Bloodmoon are good targets for ET that hose blue decks. In the Eye of Chaos? Also Yawgmoths Bargain is unrestricted, and usually plays Rector. 4 Rector, 4 Bargain, 4 ET, 1 Vamp, 1 DT seems it could be something.