North American Eternal Weekend 2017 Metagame Breakdown

Thanks for both answers.
I tested to some extend the shop/PO matchup and the results were that packing multiple hurkyl's recall in PO decks is backbreaking for shop. The low density of sphere effects available now makes it possible and it can be used either as an emergency button to get some time, or as a cleaner allowing to go into combo. My feeling is that the matchup is favorable to PO. So maybe with more PO decks in the meta of that tornament shop would have been less dominant.

@fsecco said in North American Eternal Weekend 2017 Metagame Breakdown:

If that's a thing, then GSZ also gets "better" every set, Demonic Tutor gets "better" every set.

The problem is that you listed cards that are also banned and restricted. Yes, everything generally 'gets better' (if we define this loosely) each set.

But the reason Birthing Pod is banned is not because Creature X and Creature Y were too good when cheated out, but because no matter the amount of creatures you ban, Birthing Pod just does something stupid.

Similarly, GSZ is banned in Modern because in that format the ability to toolbox for 1 extra mana is just too much. You don't go ban all the creatures that make GSZ decks stupidly powered, you ban stupidly powerful GSZ.

I am not 100% on the train the Workshop the card is restrictable, but i do find the analogy to be suitable and logical.

Unlike Pod in Modern, though, restricting the problem cards can take an angle that doesn't upset other decks. In Modern, banning a long list of 'every creature that can combo with another creature' doesn't necessarily fix Pod (doesn't, because they print more creatures with more abilities all the time) but it does upset every other creature deck that may use those cards in a different context.

So i am generally in favor of leaving Workshop the card unrestricted, and restrict stuff from it that doesn't upset other decks (Ballista and Ravager possibly).

@fsecco said in North American Eternal Weekend 2017 Metagame Breakdown:

@chubbyrain Gush didn't get good because "every printing made it better". It got good because 1 specific printing make it awesome (Monastery Mentor). And I don't even think it (Gush) should've been restricted, at least not before Mentor, so your point fails me twice.
Now, I agree they must be evaluated in the context of the meta. That's this whole point of this discussion right, trying to do that - and I don't think Shops is there now. But I don't think is suffers a Birthing Pod problem - and I don't think that was even a Pod problem. If that's a thing, then GSZ also gets "better" every set, Demonic Tutor gets "better" every set. So no, I don't think that problem is real 🙂

Mmmmm no, and the results don't support your claim. Dack, Young Pyromancer and most importantly Delve super charged Gush and the other 8 free phyrexian spells. Gush, Cruise Delver dominated champs the 1 year it was legal. The confluence of those cards was already there when Mentor hit.

@nedleeds That deck dominated champs because of Treasure Cruise, not Gush. Before Cruise the deck was pretty OK. Cruise was restricted and everything was fine until Mentor.

@Sovarius I guess my examples were bad because I took restricted cards. Take Demonic and put Diabolic Tutor in that sentence and the point I was trying to make becomes more clear. My point is that every card "gets better with time", since you can always get new interactions for it - I understand the reasons Pod was banned, but I believe the "it gets better every set" argument to be useless since it tells nothing about the card itself nor its role.

@albarkhane I guess as the 2nd-best finishing Paradoxical player I'll chime in - I think PO was well-positioned against Shops, Dredge, and random Blue decks. But there was a fair amount of Null Rod/Stony Silence and you need to be prepared for that.

In my case I had Oaths main, so you can just attack with Griselbrand a few times. I also hedged with a Beast Within and an Echoing Truth maindeck, along with Abrupt Decays in the board to deal with those answers.

I don't know if I would have felt as comfortable playing just PO at this event, though I've run TPS back before Dark Petition was printed which had similar (maybe not as bad) weaknesses. I do think it's critical to have a plan for the artifact hate and to build your manabase carefully, which is why I dropped red and played basically BUG.

@13nova , well by record I think we tied (also on jeskai mentor), as I was 7-2-1 where my draw was inevitable to win in 1-2 turns. Just wouldn't concede. So also 8-2

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