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@garbageaggro said in EW Meta and discussion.:

@BobbyVictory though it has fallen as a portion of the meta almost 10% in the last two months (from 29% to 20% of the meta according to mtgtop8).

This is a skewing of data by MTGO's league reporting which filters out similar lists and only reports a maximum of 5. It's an artifact, not a real decline (at least it's impossible to say whether the decline is real). Just look at the front page:

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@chubbyrain Agreed. I love your quote by the way. If only there was something available for me to play in vintage that I enjoy ;(

last edited by Guest

@bobbyvictory said in EW Meta and discussion.:

@chubbyrain Agreed. I love your quote by the way. If only there was something available for me to play in vintage that I enjoy ;(

With that quote in mind, the top 16 at EW (which is basically variance of tie breakers between equally well performing decks in a tournament that size) was 7 decks in the top 16. No BUG deck, which was solidly represented made it. So right there you have 7 different decks that performed well enough to make top 8 and another in BUG that placed for prizes. Spots 5-16 came down to tie breakers which have more to do with how your opponents played than how you and your deck played due to tie breakers.

So again, we have diversity. No doubt we have a dominant tier 1 deck in shops. But to claim there is no diversity in the current format is a flat out lie and ignores plain data right in front of your face.

last edited by Khahan

@khahan Islands/bazaar/shops - man so diverse. Its just a bunch of blue decks loaded up with counterspells + some board control + draw/tutors + wincons, 1 dredge deck and a bunch of shops decks. Not diverse at all.

last edited by Guest

@bobbyvictory said in EW Meta and discussion.:

@khahan Islands/bazaar/shops - man so diverse. Its just a bunch of blue decks loaded up with counterspells + some board control + draw/tutors + wincons, 1 dredge deck and a bunch of shops decks. Not diverse at all.

Then don't play vintage. That is what vintage is. We have access to the most powerful cards ever printed. Therefore we will play the most powerful cards ever printed.

The meta IS FINE. In any given tournament you know at some point you'll see shops but in any given round you could see any one of 5-6 different established decks plus 2-4 different rogue decks. That is a good healthy meta.

Except for you who defines decks so broadly that you might as well complain that the only viable card games are magic, yugioh and pokemon or go home.

Seriously, how long does he get to keep clogging every discussion with his warped and ill-informed view on Vintage before he gets banned or even more people get tired of hearing the same drumbeat and just walk away?

@khahan Im considering running the incentive for ALL leagues and challenges for awhile. I haven't posted it here yet, but for good reason. I'd like to see how the first one goes to get an idea of how many players are willing to deviate. I certainly don't want everyone to deviate for the first incentive. I'd like to see how the brew decks compete vs the current meta first. I'm also wondering if the incentive was ran for all leagues/challenges if it could permanently change the meta and phase out certain competitive decks completely. I wouldn't mind shaking things up entirely for an extended period of time. Future incentives might be highest top8 placing shops deck that only runs 1 inspector(or workshop-hah) or highest blue deck that only runs 1 misstep. If enough dedicated players of those archetypes jumped in on those incentives with the rest of the current mtgo playerbase aware of a portion of players using only 1 of each of those cards, perhaps we could get the most accurate picture of what an environment might look like with only 1 copy of each in any their respected archetypes. I figure money will motivate players to test it out in a real environment. I'll be registering for tomorrows challenge but dropping right away just so I can keep an eye on all the results and view all the replays.

last edited by Guest

@brianpk80 I played a blue deck with Pyroblasts (1 main at EW although i had been tinkering around with 2 main before i reigstered and decided against it).

I see what you are saying, but Eldrazi is so minimal and Dredge/Shops are like 30% of the meta. I decided to play a Pyroblast main deck since i could expect to be playing against blue about 7 times out of a sample of 10 rounds. It was great in the mainboard against blue decks (including Oath, which is definitely a 'blue' deck, although it was medium) and i played Shops once and Dredge once.

Do you not think Pyro is fine main deck vs ~%60-70 or is that too few in your estimation? I have been very on the edge about the card in the maindeck overall, but it was just pretty clean as removal against planeswalkers if you didn't have it in time to use a counterspell.

@sovarius I think Brian is more on the "I played 4 misstep, 2 Pyro, 2 Fluster, and I keep losing to Shops! Restrict Shops!" players (and these players for sure exist).

If you're on 4-5 dead cards v shops in the main (between pyroblast, flusterstorm, and mental misstep), that's fine, and you match up in terms of cards you bring in cards you bring out.

My Number 1 rule is always make sure you can board out ALL those shitters. Nothing is worse than having to keep a mistep in because you didn't properly analyze and build your sideboard.

@13nova I was about to point to your champs deck as an example of "don't do this", but then counted up 7 in, 7 out, and went "well, Soly actually thought this one through" 🙂

Have to imagine game 1 is a rough one, though.

@neo_altoid said in EW Meta and discussion.:

@13nova I was about to point to your champs deck as an example of "don't do this", but then counted up 7 in, 7 out, and went "well, Soly actually thought this one through" 🙂

Have to imagine game 1 is a rough one, though.

I feel like it's definitely NOT ideal, but playing well, mulligans successfully, and a little variance helps.

@brianpk80 said in EW Meta and discussion.:

Fortunately, the Top 8 this year had zero Pyroblasts and it's easy to understand why--that blue on blue cannibalism that feels so cool on MTGO is destined for multiple losses in real life scenarios where Dredge, Shops, Oath, Eldrazi and so forth actually exist. (Newsflash to Pyroblast-maniacs--these archetypes do in fact... exist).

I cannot resist pointing out the irony that the format's most faithful Weissman disciple is chastising players for adopting one of the school's most famous technological advances in constructed magic, maindecking Red Elemental Blast 🙂

@smmenen said in EW Meta and discussion.:

@brianpk80 said in EW Meta and discussion.:

Fortunately, the Top 8 this year had zero Pyroblasts and it's easy to understand why--that blue on blue cannibalism that feels so cool on MTGO is destined for multiple losses in real life scenarios where Dredge, Shops, Oath, Eldrazi and so forth actually exist. (Newsflash to Pyroblast-maniacs--these archetypes do in fact... exist).

I cannot resist pointing out the irony that the format's most faithful Weissman disciple is chastising players for adopting one of the school's most famous technological advances in constructed magic, maindecking Red Elemental Blast 🙂

It is funny the way things change over time. I wouldn't be caught dead with a maindeck Swords to Plowshares either. 🙂

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