Nasfer last edited by Nasfer
So I've been working on this list more and more over the years and am trying to figure out how tune the deck a little more towards the newer meta post-thorn ban. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Lands: 2 Polluted Delta 4 Scalding Tarn 1 Island 1 Tolarian Academy 2 Underground Sea 4 Volcanic Island Artifacts: 1 Black Lotus 2 Grindstone 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring Planeswalkers: 1 Dack Fayden Instants: 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Brainstorm 1 Dig Through Time 4 Force of Will 1 Gush 1 Mindbreak Trap 1 Mana Drain 3 Mental Misstep 4 Pyroblast 1 Red Elemental Blast 4 Thirst For Knowledge Sorceries: 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Merchant Scroll 1 Ponder 1 Time Walk 1 Tinker 1 Treasure Cruise 1 Yawgmoth's Will Creatures: 1 Blightsteel Collossus 2 Jace Vryn's Prodigy 3 Painters Servant Sideboard: 2 By Force 1 Hurkyl's Recall 1 Surgical Extraction 1 Mountain 4 Grafdigger's Cage 2 Pithing Needle 2 Nihil Spellbimb 2 Ingot Chewer
@nasfer few things. I don't claim to be an expert in this by any stretch but I've been working with my own painters list recently.
Have you tried running Bobs? I think he has great synergy with the deck. I'm not running the heavy delve spells but running 4 of him and he offers another early threat to the board that does really well at providing advantage.
Daretti Ingenious Iconoclast can also add a good axis. He is a little slow sometimes but lets you point your artifacts at big threats if need be and on occasion just provides some fodder blockers.
I'm also a big fan of welder ( yes I understand the card mental misstep is a thing) but when he's in play he offers the deck a lot of synergy with the graveyard and allows some different lines. Especially if you want to run such a heavy thirst package. Also, the deck doesn't live and die on him so you can afford it if he gets countered.
Also a big fan of mana confluence and urborg in my list. They offer extra utility and variance. You may not need the urborg but I've found it helpful.
Just some thoughts on things I've been having success with.
Vampiric Tutor is pretty awesome in this list. I use it to go down to 1x Grindstone.
I think conventional restricted blue + preordain are better than Bob, since you don't really want to play the long-damage game against the decks where Bob is good. Also you want to keep mana up for Blasts instead of tapping out. I'd cut at least 1x TFK to make room for a Paradoxical Outcome to scroll for. I also like Snap>JVP in order to use Blasts as counterspells the 2nd time.
@poxeveryturn Thanks for the feedback!
Welder is a card I have always loved. In theory he seems like the perfect fit but most of the time he has been very lack luster in a format controlled by MM, Swords, and Walking Ballista. Part of me wants to try him again but I know with almost 1/4 of the field being Shops, and another 1/4 being Mentor variants(containing swords), I feel it can be a dead card more so than not.
In regards to Bob, I think I play too many spells that are high casting cost for him. He is a great draw engine that can really help in certain match-ups. I just feel like he may more of a liability with the higher casting cost cards then a help?
Deretti, never really tested him, I've been using Dack in this spot, I may give him a whirl and see what kind of results he can produce.
I like JVP for the utility he provides. Being able to Yawg 2x in a game is a thing. Also, he allows me to slow down shops a bit as well. JVP is a house against Shops.
Vampiric Tutor is a card I keep adding and cutting. There are weeks it feels so meh, then other times it feels like one of the best cards in my deck.
Outcome, I am not usre how I feel about this, I may need to try it.
I appreciate the feedback guys!
I definitely agree with @Morbid-Spec vamp tutor is great in the deck. It's def a card to keep testing if you've had mixed results.
I also run a demonic consultation in my list. I really like the card but it can be highly suspect at times.
xouman last edited by
Well, UR painters is not the same as URB painters, but I have been playing this for nearly a couple of years and works pretty well
# Moon painters ## xouman lands (16) 3 Cavern of Souls 3 Flooded Strand 3 Island 3 Polluted Delta 1 Tolarian Academy 3 Volcanic Island creatures (14) 1 Goblin Welder 4 Magus of the Moon 4 Painter's Servant 2 Snapcaster Mage 1 Sulfur Elemental 2 Trinket Mage planeswalkers (2) 2 Dack Fayden instants (15) 1 Ancestral Recall 3 Fact or Fiction 4 Force of Will 2 Mental Misstep 3 Pyroblast 2 Red Elemental Blast sorceries (2) 1 Ponder 1 Time Walk artifacts (11) 1 Black Lotus 2 Grindstone 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Sol Ring Sideboard: 1 Gorilla Shaman 2 Sulfur Elemental 2 By Force 1 Chalice of the Void 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Flusterstorm 2 Grafdigger's Cage 2 Pyrokinesis 2 Tormod's Crypt 1 Trinisphere
The biggest difference is not the third color, but the amount of creatures. I rely on creatures, not only in painters, but also in magus (often better than painters) and others. Thus the caverns.
I played thirst some time ago, but I prefer fact or fiction. While 1 more mana is relevant, 11 artifacts is borderline imho and sometimes I found myself discarding 2 cards. With fact is quality or quantity, you choose. And you are safe from notion thiefs, leovold and spirit of the labirinth (yeah, I have faced it). I also tried paradoxical (I prefer fact) and have yet to try gifts, but as long as you play y.will, you can add noxious and snapcaster ftw. Btw, snapcaster is a house with rebs. JPV is nice and works better with sorceries, but with countermagic snapcaster shines. By force is working pretty fine, and since thorn is restricted, ingot makes little sense over other options.
Which are the main problems of my version? Delver has always been too quick, and I can't help it. If delver is on the rise, add Izzet Staticaster or Slice and dice (I love pyrokinesis, that's why I play it). Null rod/stony silence can be an issue, but with 14 creatures I can win without needing to tap an artifact. Oath is hard, one of my worst pairings. Cage is often not enough and its combo is faster. Besides Emrakul stops the combo unless you can nihil the grave in response. You need a creature to win, and can do that with 5 mana (2 for painter and 3 to activate grindstone) but if you get the grindstone grudged in response, you are having a bad time.
In your experience, which decks pose the biggest threat to your deck? That way we can search little changes to keep the identity of your deck, improving it in certain aspects.
You are correct, I am more of a spell oriented Painter. I may try a Fact or Fiction and see how it go's. As for what are my hardest match-ups? I want to say PO Decks and sometimes Shops depending on the build. I thought about bumping my land count up but drawing too many lands with this deck is terrible. I thought about adding Thoughtseize back in but it feels slow most of the time. If I add Snapcaster Mage I can't see myself ever exceeding the 2 mark. I am mainly looking to draw/see as many cards as fast as possible while getting to the combo.
xouman last edited by
@nasfer I don't want to sound rude, but painter is not a "fast" deck. Albeit is combo, it takes 6 mana compared with the 4 mana of key+vault. Also the combo is stopped by creature removal, so it's worse on paper. And having to play 3 colors instead 2 (vault+key decks often are UB) can be a nuisance. So what does painter does better than vault decks? Synergy with painter, translated into REB and pyroblast (and sulfur elemental, if you ask me). So often I don't hurry into combo, play my trinkets, faydens, snapcasters and get into a nice position to activate grindstone. If my opponent is not prepared for the combo, I can win of nowhere. And if the opponent is too focused on stopping the combo, I can win slowly with critters, trying to maximize rebs.
Problems with paradoxical? Trinket mage + chalice in the side works wonderfully. Also I play sb trinisphere if I expect storm decks, and painters is not really annoyed with trinisphere in play. Not to speak about lots of natural counters against Paradoxical Outcome!
Against mud, it's always hard. There are lots of openers that no deck can safely overcome. Revoker is maybe the hardest card, followed by ballista. In my case I rely on magus to transform all its lands into mountains, the small creatures to match it's small creatures, I limit my misstep count and don't play fluster in the main. Post side I often play more sulfur elementals and try to have 1 elemental and 1 painter in play, killing revokers while being able to match most creatures (sulfur elemental gets to 4/1 with painter naming white, not a bad blocker if needed). Of course decks with lower creature ratio work worse against mud, but jvp with by force seem a good starting point.
@xouman I don't think it sounded rude bud. I appreciate the insight and the advice. I may try the chalice plan, it seems like a good start. I did modify to have 2 by forces in my board now as well.