Abrupt Decay vs Abrade (Decklist Included)
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The last event I played I got stranded under a Null Rod and couldn't draw a fetch land to save my life... So the Decay in my hand was useless. I'm not sure if I'm overthinking the awesomeness of Decay with this one time although horrible circumstance.
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@xxhazardxx With a [[Null Rod]] in play you need two lands to play [[Abrade]], too ... Though now that I'm looking at your list again, I realized I completely missed the [[Tundra]] the first time. I think you'll probably have a better time playing the deck if you scale back on your colored spells, but if you're rock solid on the other 73 cards, the chance that you might have a [[Tundra]] in play pushes the odds a little more in favor of [[Abrade]], I'd guess.
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I know I'm trying to do alot of different things with all the colors. Balance and Moat are just such powerful cards, I'd feel like Im doing myself a dis-service not playing them.
I'll probably just have to bring them both and decide at the last minute.
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this may have already been said, i didnt read all the comments, but i think if your mana can support it, abrupt decay would be better, for the most part the hit the same targets that you would want to destroy, with a few exceptions such as lsg or rest in peace, but the uncounterable on abrupt decay is a huge reason to play it over abrade, also looking at the deck it seems like red is a very light splash while green and black are more prominent, so it seems like you are more likely to have mana to cast decay, so imho i would say decay would be the better of the two.
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I would go with Abrupt Decay. My gut reaction looking at your list is that there are more times Abrade would get countered when you really need it then you getting screwed on mana when you have Abrupt Decay.
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@xxhazardxx If this is a paper event, you should seriously consider making one of those Griselbrands into an Auriok Salvagers. The necessity of a maindeck Pyrite Spellbomb being vastly exagerated. Infinate mana wins a lot. With, Demonic, Dig, Paradoxical, Wish and assorted drawing spells in deck, as well as 2 other Grisselbrands, Oathing into Salvagers is super dangerous for your opponent, and it's castability is pretty awesome.
Brian Kelly Freudian self-analysis of the day:
I like to express the id that a player would feel without the superego of being like, "oh you have to be nice." -
@topical_island kinda to go off what you said, the op could put a braingeyeser in the side since the op is playing burning wish for an instant win combo
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@letseeker Tendrils already does the job there. You cast the Lotus each cycle, so since we have 10 Drills in the SB already, a Burning Wish in hand when we go off is just game as it is.
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@topical_island didnt think about that lol
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@letseeker No worries, I like your style. Brain-Geezer would love to see some play like the old days. I know that Legacy high tide uses Blue Sun's Zenith in that role now, if you're interested. But I've never played it.
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@topical_island This is a paper event, so Salvagers combo is very doable. The only thing I'm afraid of is hitting GB when I want Salvagers and Salvagers when I want GB. Also, the Salvagers makes me slightly more vulnerable to Null Rod.
As for the original question (Abrupt Decay vs Abrade), you have convinced me that Abrupt Decay is the superior card.
@letseeker said in Abrupt Decay vs Abrade (Decklist Included):
but the uncounterable on abrupt decay is a huge reason to play it over abrade, also looking at the deck it seems like red is a very light splash while green and black are more prominent, so it seems like you are more likely to have mana to cast decay, so imho i would say decay would be the better of the two.
This made alot of sense.
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@xxhazardxx I can say I have played over 100 matches with an Oath deck running Salvagers... (probably more in the neighborhood of 2-3 hundred?) Annnndddd... I honestly have no idea if it will cause you to win more games. I mean, I run it. But there is no way I can calc it out for your build because it's way way to complicated right?
We probably both know the pros and cons. You can hardcast your victory with Salvagers in deck, less possible without... Its worse to Null Rod, which already hurts your build a lot I'd imagine. And I wish I could tell you that I never lose by Oathing into the wrong fella. But of course that happens. I also win, using a totally different style build, by casting the Salvagers and going off... so... that's what I can tell you. Ummmm... Salvagers is a card that they printed one time.
Honestly, this is a terrible reason to do anything in cards, but if it would emotionally hurt too much to lose by hitting the wrong dude. Don't play it. That shit is real.
Best of luck to you man. Happy to see you playing Oath.
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I mean, I'm gonna do it (run Salvagers). This deck is already trying to do so many things... why not add another threat?
I like the style of of throwing bomb after bomb... Haymaker after haymaker... This is just one more way to win out of no where and it's castable!
(Although, I did hardcast a GB against a Containment Priest a while ago and my opponent was completely unprepared for GB to actually hit the field. )
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@xxhazardxx Haha... bless you Sir. I love your style. I hope you get in there, draw super hot and rip it up.
Brian Kelly Freudian self-analysis of the day:
I like to express the id that a player would feel without the superego of being like, "oh you have to be nice." -
@xxhazardxx if you would like, i used to play oath that was more combo orientated, i could link the deck if you want although if your already comfortable with your deck the way it is now i wouldnt make to many changes till after et.
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@letseeker said in Abrupt Decay vs Abrade (Decklist Included):
@xxhazardxx if you would like, i used to play oath that was more combo orientated, i could link the deck if you want although if your already comfortable with your deck the way it is now i wouldnt make to many changes till after et.
Do you feel like discussing your thoughts on the differences?
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@topical_island said in Abrupt Decay vs Abrade (Decklist Included):
@xxhazardxx Haha... bless you Sir. I love your style. I hope you get in there, draw super hot and rip it up.
So, I was falling asleep last night thinking of the deck and I had two ideas... first, why not just try Salvagers over Griselbrand entirely.
Then the second thought came, how committed am I to the Oath plan at that point. Salvagers hardly needs to be cheated into play... So what about abandoning the Oath plan, and just playing 5cBomberman?
I want to keep the Burning Wishes and Storm option (whih is why I want to stay 5c and not the typical Esper build.
Here's a thought:
4 Forbidden Orchard -> 1 Scalding Tarn, 1 Tropical, 1 Volcanic, 1 Tundra
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
4 Mental Misstep4 Oath of Druids -> 4 Salvagers (is four needed? Maybe two Salvagers, 2 Mana Drain?)
3 Griselbrand -> 1 LED, 1 Aether Spellbomb, 1 Tinker
3 Burning Wish2 Abrupt Decay
2 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Moat2 Paradoxical Outcome
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Dig Through Time
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm1 Tendrils of Agony
1Toxic Deluge
1 Balance
1 Show and Tell
1 Yawgomoth’s Will
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Leyline of SanctityThoughts? Am I just going off the deep end now?
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Ok: Here's some goodies for you - http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9781&d=256355&f=VI
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/670484#paper
And I know some dude in Australia has a list that includes the following cards: Monastery Mentor, Paradoxical Outcome, Auriok Salvagers... But I haven't been able to find it.
Additionally, here is a dude named Kev playing a bomberman on Modo... super loose play btw... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8TlIxAtkHc
Something else I might mention, is that if you do chose to play a Bomberman Oath build with Paradoxical, I suggest running EE and Top, since they are great with Paradoxical (Top is an extra card draw with outcome), and together with the Bomberman going off, they draw your whole deck.
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the main differences is that i played recoup to flashback time twister as my graveyard shuffle effect, and i played sun titan and vault key and finally i played tinker into sphinx of the steel wind and memory jar
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Okay, here is some feed back from playing this deck at Gen Con:
Round 1: Played against Solemnity/Dark Depths combo. Won G1 on the play with a T1 Orchard/Oath. Opponent conceded before I saw a card. Lost 2 and 3 to too much countermagic.
Round 2: Crushed Ravager Shops
Round 3: Lost to Sultai control (Leovold and stuff)
Round 4: Beat Ravager Shops again (wtf?)
Some things I learned/took away.
The one of Salvagers completely changed the deck. I won with salvagers combo way more than Griselbrand beats/ Storm. Although, I had several concessions from just Griselbrand.
Two, main deck Moat was an absolute house against Shops.
In the second event, I switched to a Not White Tezz deck. I don't have the deck list, but just big blue, lots of counters etc.
Again, in this event I lost to two Blue decks and smashed two Ravager Shops. I wasn't even playing Moat. But still had the two main deck Hurkyl's and ingot chewers/Ancient Grudges from the sideboard.
On the whole, I was 4-4 for Vintage. Add in my 3-1 Legacy final and I had a pretty good weekend of Magic!
Thanks for the all the help in building and brewing!!
