If I had access to 4 Flash I'd brew some awful Oops! deck that either cast Flash to trigger Balustrade Spy or to trigger Protean Hulk to find Balustrade Spy and Grand Abolisher.

@desolutionist Not that I disagree with it being a viable option, but it amazes me that Vintage is in a place where Form of Dragon is a card you might play when if you had said to my younger self that Vintage would be in such a place I would have called you crazy. What a world.


Well even the old versions of Rector played Form of the Dragon. It's quite good. It's a Moat that is also a win condition and gains you life. You get that instead of Bargain against Shops or something. Obviously now it's a little more risky because of the Ravager + Ballista combo and Hangarback Walker.

last edited by desolutionist

@desolutionist I was out during the times that deck saw play although that's not too surprising thinking about it. That card's always been sweet when you can cheat it out, albeit slow. The fact that Shops can now just kill you via Ballista or Walker is a pain though.

@desolutionist said in Cards to unrestrict:


Form of the Dragon...

I mentioned FoD in post 50, and the deck I linked to from 2007 had it in it.

@walking.dude said in Cards to unrestrict:


Creature suite for combo should consider
Karmic guide
V seer
Mikesus the unhallowed
Walking ballista


So, after Flashing in Hulk, the combo is:

Step 1: Put Karmic Guide and Viscera Seer in play.

Step 2: Karmic Guide trigger puts Protean Hulk back into play.

Step 3: Sac Hulk to Viscera Seer to put Mikaeus and Ballista (x=0) into play.

Step 4: The Ballista will die as a statebased effect, but come back into play via Mikaeus as 1/1

Step 5: Sac Ballista as many times as needed to kill an opponent.

Bonus: you can also loop Karmic Guide with Seer to Scry through your entire deck, I believe!

Is that what you had in mind? Nicely done. That is certainly one card smaller than the Reveillark combo, if I understand that correctly.

Also, if I'm understanding this correctly, does this make Micakeus and Ballista a 2 card, 6 mana instant kill in any format?

EDIT: after 2 seconds of web searching, it does appear this is the case:



last edited by Smmenen

@Smmenen sure looks that way to me. It won't have a counter on it when it dies, comes back with one, remove it, it dies, rinse and repeat. Pretty cool combo.


So you could just hulk in Mikaeus and Ballista; that's only two cards. That's much better for Protean Hulk that what there used to be!

last edited by desolutionist

@desolutionist said in Cards to unrestrict:


So you could just hulk in Mikeaus and Ballista

Yeah, makes sense. I can't think of a reason you wouldn't just do that unless you wanted to scry through your whole deck with V Seer & Guide as well. But that does seem superfluous.

It does appear we've found the most compact Hulk kill ever! Just two damn cards!

EDIT, so here is a revised list:

Theoretical Vintage Flash, 7/13/17
Stephen Menendian

40 Spells:

The combo:
4 Flash
4 Protean Hulk
2 Summoner's Pact
1 Mikaeus
1 Walking Ballista
1 V. Seer
1 Karmic Guide

Restricted Cards:
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Dig Through Time

4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Pact of Negation

1 Chain of Vapor

3 Preordain

20 Mana:

13 Lands
5 Moxen
Lotus Petal

Seems awesome! I want to play this deck!

last edited by Smmenen

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but Mikaeus also grants +1/+1 in addition to undying. Walking Ballista can't die to state-based effects, you need the sacrifice outlet from the original example to sacrifice the 1/1 Ballista to start the chain and each loop after removing the counter. I never thought an anthem effect could make a card worse.

@hierarchnoble ah poop. Seemed to cool to be true

@mourningpalace said in Cards to unrestrict:

@hierarchnoble ah poop. Seemed to cool to be true

Ah, that explains why we need V Seer & Karmic Guide. Still, that's much better than the Reveillark combo, I think.

But the combo is vulnerable to pretty much everything, from Sudden Shock to Pithing Needle.

@Smmenen yeah, makes sense now. i completely over looked the anthem effect as well.

@hierarchnoble said in Cards to unrestrict:

If I had access to 4 Flash I'd brew some awful Oops! deck that either cast Flash to trigger Balustrade Spy or to trigger Protean Hulk to find Balustrade Spy and Grand Abolisher.

If your goal is to brew some jank with Flash then what you should do is Flash Gamekeeper to find Emrakul, with Cabal Therapy to sacrifice Gamekeepers to keep the chain going if need be.

Unrestrict Brainstorm to go along with Flash.

flash unrestricted +Not brainstorm + graveyard hate = sliver -Possible good choice-

Or you get Atog instead of Seer and make a REALLY BIG Atog 😉

Unrestrict Demonic Consultation and Brainstorm - I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong... (pro tip - Consultation is as good or better than DT most of the time and Brainstorm is similar to Ancestral in the right decks).

If you want protection against reaction, @Smmenen , it only takes one more card:

Volrath's Shapeshifter
Grand Abolisher
Viscera Seer/Carrion Feeder
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Walking Ballista

Fetch the first three, Shapeshifter is a Protean Hulk, sacrifice it to fetch the last two, you can work it out from there. Grand Abolisher stops Sudden Shock and similar shenanigans.

To your credit, none of that sidesteps the traditional Containment Priest and Grafdigger's Cage attack methods that players have been using against Oath and Dredge. Maybe we'll get Flash back after all.

EDIT: I might be wrong about this one. I can't seem to find a ruling anywhere to verify that Protean Hulk will be on top of Flash once Flash resolves.

last edited by Guest

I would just play 4 flash and 4 emrakul so I get infinite Time Walks. Way cooler bro, way cooler.

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