@Smmenen yeah, makes sense now. i completely over looked the anthem effect as well.

@hierarchnoble said in Cards to unrestrict:

If I had access to 4 Flash I'd brew some awful Oops! deck that either cast Flash to trigger Balustrade Spy or to trigger Protean Hulk to find Balustrade Spy and Grand Abolisher.

If your goal is to brew some jank with Flash then what you should do is Flash Gamekeeper to find Emrakul, with Cabal Therapy to sacrifice Gamekeepers to keep the chain going if need be.

Unrestrict Brainstorm to go along with Flash.

flash unrestricted +Not brainstorm + graveyard hate = sliver -Possible good choice-

Or you get Atog instead of Seer and make a REALLY BIG Atog 😉

Unrestrict Demonic Consultation and Brainstorm - I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong... (pro tip - Consultation is as good or better than DT most of the time and Brainstorm is similar to Ancestral in the right decks).

If you want protection against reaction, @Smmenen , it only takes one more card:

Volrath's Shapeshifter
Grand Abolisher
Viscera Seer/Carrion Feeder
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Walking Ballista

Fetch the first three, Shapeshifter is a Protean Hulk, sacrifice it to fetch the last two, you can work it out from there. Grand Abolisher stops Sudden Shock and similar shenanigans.

To your credit, none of that sidesteps the traditional Containment Priest and Grafdigger's Cage attack methods that players have been using against Oath and Dredge. Maybe we'll get Flash back after all.

EDIT: I might be wrong about this one. I can't seem to find a ruling anywhere to verify that Protean Hulk will be on top of Flash once Flash resolves.

last edited by Guest

I would just play 4 flash and 4 emrakul so I get infinite Time Walks. Way cooler bro, way cooler.

Note to self Flash does not cast the creature. Huge bummer.

Everyone who's building the FLash deck is 100% doing it wrong.

4 Flash
4 Academy Rector
1 Yawmoth's Bargain
2 Omniscience
1 EmrakLOL, the Assholes Torn
2 Show and Tell
1 Jace, the MindSculptor
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Mental Mistep
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gitaxian Probe
3 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Island
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald

@Godder

Consult is very good. But as someone who played combo with consult beofre it was restricted, I can tell you it's a card with real drawbacks. It's obviously great, but it's not DT. DT is perfectly reliable.

Consulting for a restricted card or a 'one of' loses you the game a lot of the time. Not just from the risk of having it in your top six (very real), but from how many cards you may need to remove before you reach the 'one of'. You can remove all your win conditions. You can remove all the swamps and strand a fetch land. You can remove too much draw and have no velocity. Sometimes it's just the bottom card in your deck. The great consult decks of the past were built around 4 ofs (4 necro 4 ritual 4 illusions 4 donate), or were built around wishes (consult for burning sac led in response). The later is much weaker now that wishes can't bring a card back from excile anymore and that the wishes are themselves restricted.

Consult wouldn't just plug into storm and be DT 2-5, it would need to be in a 4of style deck. Something like the below:

'''
#Draft 2 card monte with consult
Draw / search (10)
Ancestral
DT
4 consult
Jar
Tinker
Vampiric
Wheel

Combo (19)
4 Grindstone
4 painter
4 leyline
3 helm
4 welder

Misc (4)
2 defense grid
2 red blast

Mana (27)
4 ancient tomb
7 sol lo mox
4 gemstone mine
4 city of brass
Crypt
Vault
4 shop
Academy
Urborg
'''

I think that would probably be a strong deck; one that put up top 8s and occasionally won large events. But I don't think it would dominate the meta and win everything. Some new decks get added and life is good.

Of course, maybe consult just goes into PO storm and the deck makes space for 4 maindeck tendrils kills people on turn one all the time and life is awful.

If people want to add power to combo, consult probably adds more power than flash. Flash makes one new deck, consult creates a whole new deck building challenge of finding the best 4of based combo in vintage (hope that combo is not just 4mentor+deck).

Just to note the epistemic status of these posts, I'm mostly trying to brainstorm and engage in outside the box thinking about unrestriction and not tunnel on one card. I don't really have any firm confidence in the belief that consult would be a good unrestriction and would need a lot of deck building, goldfishing, and live testing to get to a point where I could say anything with even moderate certainty. I'm just trying to keep people thinking here and to keep people questioning assumptions about what could be unrestricted.

last edited by walking.dude

@MSolymossy

I think you really want 4 therapy there. It's a combo piece with rector, it's solid disruption, and it's a card that combos with its self if you draw multiples. The first therapy sets you up for perfect snipes with the second.

@walking.dude Dont think you need 4 therapy at all if you have 4 flash. I would maybe cut a preordain for a flusterstorm though. If folks think Pyroblast sees a lot of play now wait if Flash comes off...

4 virulent sliver + 1 heart sliver
and 1 galerider sliver (side)
is most anti-hate flash combo.

I compiled a list of the reasons for each restricted card's restriction. On the left is the restricted card and on the right is the reason for it's restriction. Feel free to offer criticism/changes and I'll try to add them. Cards that are marked as fundamental include cards like the power nine and anything else that has long been understood to undercostedly undermine fundamental strategic elements of the game such as single land drops per turn(Moxen and Fastbond), one turn each per rotation(Time Walk) etc. Here is the list:

  • Ancestral Recall...............Fundamental
  • Balance.............................Fundamental/Format Dominance
  • Black Lotus.......................Fundamental
  • Brainstorm .......................Gush
  • Chalice of the Void...........Mishra's Workshop
  • Channel.............................Fundamental
  • Demonic Consultation.....Ritual Storm Combo/Every two card combo ever(Now also good with Lab Maniac)
  • Demonic Tutor..................Every Restricted Card
  • Dig Through Time.............Gush/Cantrips
  • Fastbond...........................Fundamental/Draw 7s
  • Flash..................................Protean Hulk(Note: Also good with Academy Rector and many others)
  • Gitaxian Probe..................Monastery Mentor
  • Gush..................................Monastery Mentor
  • Imperial Seal.....................Every Restricted Card
  • Library of Alexandria........Fundamental
  • Lion's Eye Diamond..........Draw 7s/Ritual Storm Combo
  • Lodestone Golem.............Mishra's Workshop
  • Lotus Petal.......................Ritual Storm Combo
  • Mana Crypt.......................Fundamental
  • Mana Vault.......................Fundamental(Historically Related to Mishra's Workshop?)
  • Memory Jar......................The Power 9/Other Draw7s
  • Merchant Scroll................Ancestral Recall/Gush
  • Mind's Desire....................Minds's Desire
  • Mox Emerald....................Fundamental
  • Mox Jet.............................Fundamental
  • Mox Pearl..........................Fundamental
  • Mox Ruby..........................Fundamental
  • Mox Sapphire...................Fundamental
  • Mystical Tutor...................Every Restricted Instant and Sorcery(Such as Balance and the Draw 7s)
  • Necropotence...................Format Dominance
  • Ponder...............................Gush
  • Sol Ring.............................Fundamental
  • Strip Mine..........................Fundamental(Historically related to Mishra's Workshop)
  • Time Vault.........................Voltaic Key/Every card that can repeatedly untap artifacts
  • Time Walk.........................Fundamental
  • Timetwister.......................The Power 9/Other Draw7s
  • Tinker.................................Fundamental(Also Memory Jar)
  • Tolarian Academy.............The Power 9/Draw7s
  • Treasure Cruise.................Gush/Cantrips
  • Trinisphere.........................Mishra's Workshop
  • Vampiric Tutor...................Every Restricted Card
  • Wheel of Fortune...............The Power 9/Other Draw7s
  • Windfall..............................The Power 9/Other Draw7s
  • Yawgmoth's Bargain.......... . . . Ritual Storm Combo?
  • Yawgmoth's Will.................The Power 9/Ritual Storm Combo

Note that, according to my understanding, there are two cards that were restricted primarily because of their interaction with unrestricted Gush, three cards restricted primarily because of their interaction with unrestricted Mishra's Workshop, and two cards Restricted primarily because of their interaction with unrestricted Monastery Mentor (Also stated by the DCI to be related to Mishra's Workshop).

@Brass-Man is there a way to codify a table?

last edited by Aaron Patten

@Aaron-Patten

I'm not sure Ponder even can be said to be related to Gush. In Vintage today, Ponder is not too different than Preordain, so unless we want that fine dividing line to be the line between unrestricted and restricted draw (makes me too at PO if so), then there really isn't a reason for restricted Ponder. Unlike brainstorm, it really only gives you 1 more card to use in your hand.

Ponder, Fastbond, Flash, Windfall, Necropotence, Yawgmoths Bargain, Channel, Library of Alexandria, even Timetwister could be taken off the list. Would it lead to more "coin flippy" games? Yes. Would it create 5++ new decks and archetypes? Yes. Would these new glass cannon decks do better than Belcher, PO, Dredge, Oath, MUD, and Mentor? No.

Its all the same guys. You say one is broken, the other is not. Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Spheres, Wasteland, Null Rod, Mindbreak Trap, Duress efx, Leylines, the cards FIX THEMSELVES. There is an answer to EVERYTHING.

LET THE CARDS BE FREE.

@Smmenen I actually played a flash Hulk deck months ago and had to play 2 see beyond. I found that playing show and tell + therapy with hiveminds and 4 summoners pact and only one hulk was the way to go so that you could fight the graveyard hate postboard. The deck was pretty strong and if flash and/or brainstorm came off the list it might be a player.

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