Navigation

    The Mana Drain

    • Register
    • Login
    • Search
    • Strategy
    • Community
    • Tournaments
    • Recent

    [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs

    Single-Card Discussion
    16
    35
    22403
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • MaximumCDawg
      MaximumCDawg last edited by MaximumCDawg

      alt text

      http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/163/749/636329523577535185.jpg

      In the long and storied tradition of Good Cards Growing Legs, we have a 2/3 Crucible for 2G.

      Seems pretty clearly Vintage playable. Noble Fish 2.0, anyone?

      ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • enderfall
        enderfall last edited by enderfall

        Pretty cool card. A 2/3 body for 3 isn't great, but in corner cases a Crucible that attacks is pretty good. I'd say that this is easier to remove, but these days there is the same, if not more, artifact removal instead of creature removal. Being a Naga Cleric doesn't help Cavern decks, so I hesitate to see a good fit right away. Noble Fish probably just would prefer jamming True-Name at the 3 drop spot instead of this.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • thecravenone
          thecravenone last edited by

          I can't really see a deck wanting to play a harder-to-cast Crucible that dies to every piece of creature removal in the format but it's pretty cool. Is it an upgrade over Renegade Rallier?

          Quote from: Stormanimagus on March 16, 2016, 06:39:41 pm
          >Instead of tearing things down we should calmly explain our opinions.

          MaximumCDawg 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • MaximumCDawg
            MaximumCDawg @thecravenone last edited by MaximumCDawg

            @thecravenone There's no comparison. Rallier recovers one land when it enters the battlefield, and then only if you have Revolt.

            Crucible lets you lock out your opponents with Stripe Mine and Wasteland, and incidentally lets you fetch out lands every turn. That's what this Naga does.

            I query whether this card finally makes Green Sun's Zenith make a serious dent in Vintage.

            @enderfall said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

            Pretty cool card. A 2/3 body for 3 isn't great, but in corner cases a Crucible that attacks is pretty good. I'd say that this is easier to remove, but these days there is the same, if not more, artifact removal instead of creature removal. Being a Naga Cleric doesn't help Cavern decks, so I hesitate to see a good fit right away. Noble Fish probably just would prefer jamming True-Name at the 3 drop spot instead of this.

            Can we think of any time a Vintage-playable effect got legs and was worse? Seems to me every time they do this the effect gets better.

            Dark Confidant
            Magus of the Moon
            Edilion of the Great Revel
            Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
            etc etc

            Brass Man thecravenone 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • ?
              A Former User @MaximumCDawg last edited by

              @MaximumCDawg said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

              Noble Fish 2.0, anyone?

              Me!

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • Brass Man
                Brass Man @MaximumCDawg last edited by

                @MaximumCDawg said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

                Can we think of any time a Vintage-playable effect got legs and was worse? Seems to me every time they do this the effect gets better.

                Magus of the Jar? Magus of the Bazaar? Magus of the Moat? Magus of the Abyss? Magus of the Library? Magus of the Tabernacle? Magus of the Wheel? Magus of the Will?

                MaximumCDawg Islandswamp J 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                • Brass Man
                  Brass Man last edited by

                  I dig this card. My first thought is BUG Fish, which already occasionally runs Crucible of Worlds.

                  Someone suggested Green Sun's Zenith which is a nice synergy, as well.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                  • MaximumCDawg
                    MaximumCDawg @Brass Man last edited by

                    @Brass-Man said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

                    @MaximumCDawg said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

                    Can we think of any time a Vintage-playable effect got legs and was worse? Seems to me every time they do this the effect gets better.

                    Magus of the Jar? Magus of the Bazaar? Magus of the Moat? Magus of the Abyss? Magus of the Library? Magus of the Tabernacle? Magus of the Wheel? Magus of the Will?

                    I mean... yeah, but... some of those did not JUST grow legs, they also got material drawbacks. Abyss kills itself. Wheel and Tabernacle and Bazaar and Will all cost more.

                    The best counterexamples are probably Jar and Moat. With Jar, I guess the analogy is whether Tinker/Shops are so critical to Crucible that it's not good without them in the same way that Memory Jar owes much of its existence to those cards. I'm not sure that one is fair either.

                    But Magus of the Moat is pretty spot-on as a counterexample, I admit. (I also love Magus of the Moat!)

                    The Atog Lord 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • thecravenone
                      thecravenone @MaximumCDawg last edited by

                      @MaximumCDawg said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

                      @thecravenone There's no comparison. Rallier recovers one land when it enters the battlefield, and then only if you have Revolt.

                      Rallier gets back one land or something else good so I think they're at least in similar slots.

                      @MaximumCDawg said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

                      Can we think of any time a Vintage-playable effect got legs and was worse? Seems to me every time they do this the effect gets better.

                      Dark Confidant
                      Magus of the Moon
                      Edilion of the Great Revel
                      Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
                      etc etc

                      For what it's worth, many times these creatures are played alongside the existing card rather than replacing them. EG, Thalia 1 and Thorn, Eidelon and Pillar. (And not to go too far off but it my few games with it, I've preferred Pillar due to all the creature removal that's been around recently)

                      Quote from: Stormanimagus on March 16, 2016, 06:39:41 pm
                      >Instead of tearing things down we should calmly explain our opinions.

                      Brass Man 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • The Atog Lord
                        The Atog Lord @MaximumCDawg last edited by

                        @MaximumCDawg said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

                        @Brass-Man said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

                        @MaximumCDawg said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

                        Can we think of any time a Vintage-playable effect got legs and was worse? Seems to me every time they do this the effect gets better.

                        Magus of the Jar? Magus of the Bazaar? Magus of the Moat? Magus of the Abyss? Magus of the Library? Magus of the Tabernacle? Magus of the Wheel? Magus of the Will?

                        I mean... yeah, but... some of those did not JUST grow legs, they also got material drawbacks. Abyss kills itself. Wheel and Tabernacle and Bazaar and Will all cost more.

                        The best counterexamples are probably Jar and Moat. With Jar, I guess the analogy is whether Tinker/Shops are so critical to Crucible that it's not good without them in the same way that Memory Jar owes much of its existence to those cards. I'm not sure that one is fair either.

                        But Magus of the Moat is pretty spot-on as a counterexample, I admit. (I also love Magus of the Moat!)

                        Magus of the Moat was in Brian Kelly's Championship sideboard.

                        "On the other hand, they have admitted that text matters." -- Smmenen

                        Brass Man 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • Brass Man
                          Brass Man @The Atog Lord last edited by Brass Man

                          @The-Atog-Lord Magus of the Moat definitely has some advantages over Moat – and I really like it in Brian's list – but not enough that you see more Moats than Maguses in general. For the purposes of this thread, I think it's true that "adding legs doesn't ALWAYS make an effect better."

                          I think the differences are largely explored in vintage. Attacking and blocking is awesome, but it's easier to kill creatures than it is to kill artifacts (usually, depends on the matchup). Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon is often a tossup, I think.

                          As for this card, I think you would still rather have Crucible in a matchup like Landstill, where you really want Crucible to stick around, and they have lots of creature removal ... but the marginal advantage of a body against decks where Crucible isn't as key (e.g. Mentor), means that the card is more maindeckable than Crucible is. Tutorability by Green Sun's Zenith or other cards is another dynamic that isn't true about Magus of the Moon/Moat, so that's pretty interesting, too 😄

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Brass Man
                            Brass Man @thecravenone last edited by

                            @thecravenone said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

                            Rallier gets back one land or something else good so I think they're at least in similar slots.

                            Rallier also puts the land right into play which acts as ramp and/or lets you immediately Strip something the turn you play it, even if you already played a land. That said, I wouldn't play Rallier if I was ONLY planning on returning lands with it (I'd want to build around it a little more). Still, I'm not interested in Rallier enough to bother testing it, but I'm definitely interested in seeing this card in action. I think that while they could both be run in the same deck, that sort of deck doesn't feel strong to me right now, and some lists that could use Excavator but not Rallier feel like they have a lot more potential to me

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • S
                              Serracollector last edited by

                              This makes the bicycle lands look a lot more interesting.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • ?
                                A Former User last edited by

                                This card is pretty good against Thalia if she were ever an issue for a non-Oath green deck 👍

                                Topical_Island 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Topical_Island
                                  Topical_Island @Guest last edited by

                                  @desolutionist Could this card be great with Thalia?

                                  Brian Kelly Freudian self-analysis of the day:
                                  I like to express the id that a player would feel without the superego of being like, "oh you have to be nice."

                                  ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • G
                                    Griselbrother last edited by

                                    Minus points for creativity, but man this card is so good for GW hatebears. Now they just need to print Null Rod on legs.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • ?
                                      A Former User @Topical_Island last edited by

                                      @Topical_Island said in [HOD] Ramunap Excavator - Crucible With Legs:

                                      @desolutionist Could this card be great with Thalia?

                                      I don't play Thalia... but I mean if they have a Thalia, I can prevent her from attacking and make my land drops every turn to just cast my spells despite her resistance

                                      Topical_Island 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Uvatha
                                        Uvatha last edited by Uvatha

                                        It is not uncommon to run two different creature types in a Cavern of Souls deck. I would want to try it in a Human-Cleric build. I think it looks strong enough to justify to test in a build a build like that with 4x Wasteland, 1x Strip Mine and then 2-4x Qhost Quarter, but only testing will tell if it is strong enough of course.

                                        Many of the White Wheenie decks I have been playing you would name Cleric anyway if you had a Leonin Relic-Warder on hand along with various humans that were also Clerics in addition to Humans.

                                        The list of Clerics that have seen regular play is decent, and most are humans (and all white if you want to go White-Green):

                                        • Containment Priest
                                        • Leonin Relic-Warder
                                        • Sanctum Prelate
                                        • Leonin Arbiter
                                        • True Beliver
                                        • Fiend Hunter

                                        And even more see fringe play, also with a lot of humans among them (also White):

                                        • Preacher
                                        • Glowrider
                                        • War Priest of Thune
                                        • Grand Abolisher
                                        • Selfless Spirit
                                        • Mother of Runes,
                                        • Ethersworn canonist

                                        And some not all White:

                                        • Sin Collector
                                        • High Priest of Penance
                                        • Geist of Saint Traft
                                        • Harsh Mentor
                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Hrishi
                                          Hrishi last edited by

                                          It's "easier" to remove than Crucible, but being a creature has some advantages too I suppose? Green Sun's Zenith seems interesting and it plays nice with Thorn effects. This is far from my type of card (:D) but I'm sure it's at least fringe-playable.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • ?
                                            A Former User last edited by

                                            I sent a friend a Cleric Tribal deck a few weeks ago after realizing that Daru Spiritualist can't die to Walking Ballista activations. It ran Vizier of the Menagerie at the top end, as well as the infinite life combo of Daru Spiritualist, Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim and Shaman en-Kor (all Clerics). Here's a rough maindeck based on what I had:

                                            3 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
                                            3 Containment Priest
                                            4 Daru Spiritualist
                                            2 Ethersworn Canonist
                                            3 Harsh Mentor
                                            4 Leonin Arbiter
                                            4 Shaman en-Kor
                                            3 Geist of Saint Traft
                                            3 Ramunap Excavator
                                            2 Vizier of the Menagerie

                                            1 Ancestral Recall
                                            1 Time Walk

                                            1 Black Lotus
                                            1 Mox Emerald
                                            1 Mox Jet
                                            1 Mox Pearl
                                            1 Mox Ruby
                                            1 Mox Sapphire

                                            4 Cavern of Souls
                                            4 City of Brass
                                            4 Gemstone Mine
                                            4 Mana Confluence
                                            1 Strip Mine
                                            4 Wasteland

                                            There are very obvious problems with the deck, such as how little it chooses to disrupt the opponent. The original list had Starlit Sanctum in place of Wasteland, but a swap was made in order to include Ramunap Excavator. In the end, playing up the Ghost Quarter/Leonin Arbiter package that is used in Modern with Ramunap Excavator (and fewer colors) may be a much better starting point. However, very few decks in Vintage can deal with infinite life, so every Cleric that comes along is something I always take a second look at.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                            • First post
                                              Last post