Salvager is probably one of my favorite creature cards (after Goblin Welder of course :P). One of the fundamental questions we have to ask is that in a U/W/x style deck, what does Salvager + Lotus + Spellbomb/Ballista offer that current decks do not. You get the instant "I win" factor, but the combo is very soft to graveyard hate, Phyrexian Revoker, Spheres, Null Rod, Stony Silence, and Pithing Needle.

Another deck I want to look at that has similar weaknesses and relies on resolving a 4 CMC spell to "go off" is Paradoxical Outcome based decks. I feel like compared to PO, Salvager + Trinket mage is just clunkier + draws less cards.

What you gain however, is a better plan B. You can beat people with 2/2s and 2/4s. That used to be good enough. But recently, I feel like with the new creatures and how aggressive shops are, Eldrazi being a thing, and tokens + STP everywhere, that bomberman is just too fragile.

Of course I hope someone proves me wrong because I want to play bomberman again.

@Naixin I agree it is fairly fragile. I wonder if adding LED to the lists could get around the Revoker/Needle issue? Spheres/Rod can be resolved with Hurkyl's. I don't think enough people are playing with Leyline of the Void, but Rest in Peace is an issue. The graveyard hate forces the deck to have a strong plan B, something other than attack with 2/2 and 2/4. This could be where Tasigur comes in, or perhaps even playing mentor ourselves. Has anyone really explored the possibility of Salvagers teaming with Mentor? We can also jam in Tinker and Robot to avoid dealing with that stuff as well. I feel like the tools are there; just need to come up with the ideal 75.

I love the bomberman-style deck. I've played salvagers oath in multiple tournaments. I started tinkering with a paradoxical bomberman the day paradoxical outcome came out. I've tried U/W and UWb like you suggested. And looking over your lists I can't help but think that TfK may be better slotted as gifts ungiven. Especially in a 4-mana drain build like you presented.

If you have salvagers out and resolve gifts - you win. If you have salvagers out and resolve every TfK in your deck you still may not win.

Last time I played bomberman was in a legacy tourney list with Mentor, Tasigur, salvagers, and Trinkey Mage, 4 Brainstorm 4 TfK and 4 LED. I ended up 2nd losing to MUD that locked me out. Against bug, miracles, Goblins, Belcher, and Death and Taxes I wrecked face. I really like Mentor, Tinkerbot, and Tasigurs as a plan B, but that makes the list very creature heavy so not sure how to on the correct numbers.

Can someone please, please explain why Trinket Mage is playable. I don't understand it. Every time one is cast I think, "I am happy that is not a Dark Confidant or Snapcaster Mage."

Why is it good? Why? WHY???

No really, I'm open to the idea; I don't play the deck really ever; I don't understand it; please help me understand; thank you!

This is the oath variant I've been playing with most recently. It's still a work in progress.

@boggyb trinket mage is played because it can search up combo pieces (lotus, LED, spellbomb, ballista), cage, crypt, EE, sensei's top, etc.

It was basically a 3 mana demonic tutor with a body. I think it's less playable now because a 2/2 is just not as good anymore because of tokens and better creatures.

Gush Mentor is exactly the reason that Bomberman was "bad," and why I quit Vintage for a year. Since the restriction, I have cashed 3 of 3 tournaments with the exact same decklist from a year ago (adding Walking Ballista). U/w/r is the place to be, not any of those other things.

last edited by Pokey

@Pokey UWr sounds interesting. Do you mind sharing your list? And is there a reason why you choose not to run PO?

“ Red Deck Wins"

4 Trinket Mage
2 Auriok Salvagers
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Flusterstorm
1 Dig Through Time
1 Treasure Cruise
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Time Walk
3 Dack Fayden
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Walking Ballista
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Plains
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand

2 Containment Priest
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Fragmentize
1 Pyroblast

I lied earlier, I also added Fragmentize. PO may or may not be better, but Jace and I are bros.

Just a thought,
Walking ballista should probably be a four of in any Bombaerman list and Hope of Ghirapur shouldn't be difficult to include. My 2Cents, at least. 🙂

@Pokey said in Bomberman 2017:

PO may or may not be better, but Jace and I are bros.

It's true....Justin without Jace is like Joe Biden without Barack Obama (are we still doing that? If not, can we?)

Niche scenerio, but should REB and Pyroblast switch MB and SB, in that Pyro can easily be fuel for DigCruise? Is fragmentize better than wear//tear in this list? Just curious. I like it alot tho. 3 dack and 3 jace seems beautiful, Im guessing the 3rd jace over brainstorm? Or is that just to keep Misstep targets low?

last edited by Serracollector

@Ten-Ten Walking Ballista is good, but not THAT good. We are already weak enough to Null Rod, and it requires too much mana to be useful. Also, I've never once thought to myself, "This deck really wants a Xantid Swarm."

@Serracollector While Pyro is strictly better than REB, I prefer to play my Summer Magic REB (gotta be a baller). It hasn't cost me any games yet, so we'll keep doing that. I don't like Wear//Tear because I don't want to play red sideboard cards. If I did, I would be playing By Force. That being said, Fragmentize is getting cut anyway for 3rd EE or Moat. I have in fact eschewed Brainstorm for another Planeswalker.

Those sir are all legit reasons. Ty. Love it.

@Pokey Hope of Ghirapur is more of a time walk with legs that kills, in most cases anyway. GG with Salvagers out, no need for infinite mana. It's a highly underrated card indeed. Requires minimal resources/risk for a high reward. I actually didnt evaluate it as a Xantid Swarm, Just saying.

Pretty sure there was a bet concerning Auriok Salvagers and Hope of Whatever with absolutely no takers. The card is not underrated, it's not a Time Walk, it's not GG with Salvagers (Swords either card and it breaks the loop), it's just bad in this context....

@Ten-Ten white eldrazi, shops, bug control - all dont care about non-creature spells as much. That's not an insignificant amount of the meta right there. Oath is another one that iwll probably be online long before you get this combo out and once its online many oath variants dont need to cast spells to win. Then all the X/w decks packing StP like Chubby mentioned. Your opponent is still collecting cards in their hand on their turn.

Salvagers has so many ways to just lock out and win instantly that a soft lock is worse than a sub-par choice.

I finished 9th (out of 42) this Saturday at our annual Sanctioned Eternal Masters Week-End in Australia with a PO Bomberman list:

Critters (7)
2 Auriok Salvagers
2 Trinket Mage
3 Monastery Mentor

Disrupt (16)
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Mental Misstep
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives

Draws (13)
3 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Paradoxical Outcome
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Dig Through Time
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Dack Fayden
1 SkullClamp

Mana (24)
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Mox Opal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Volcanic Island
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alex
1 Strip Mine

Sideboard (15)
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Disenchant
2 Mystic Remora
1 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle

Round 1 - JacoDrazi: Win 2-1. Early Mentor game 2 got me there. Game 3, STP 2 early Smashers won the game because, after that, I simply drew more than them.
Round 2 - Grixis Control (with 3 Sudden Shock + 3 Bolt + Snappies + Bob): Win 2-0. Game 1, I Stripped Mine is Turn1 Library!. Game 2, he mulled to 4
Round 3 - White Eldrazi: Loss 0-2. I Mindbreak Trapped the first threat T1. Then I got steamrolled. Game 2, I kept a "good hand", but Null Rod ruined it. Wasn't close.
Round 4 - UWb Mentor: Win 2-0. This one was on stream here so I won't spoil it. It was rather entertaining from my point of view!
Round 5 - Ballista MUD (with Tangle Wire): Loss 0-2. Game 2, I kept ok hand with Sideboard cards. I was always 1 Mana short. My opponent Andrew Canessa finished 1st in the Swiss but lost in the Top8 Gd Finale against an Unpowered UR Deck!
Round 6 - PO combo with 1 Mentor: Win 2-0. Game 2, I had Remora up to 8 cumulative upkeeps and an early Trinket Mage beating my opponent down to 4 life. So he eventually tried to go off, and my very last draw of the Remora was a FOW for his Yawg's Will (which I initially mindbreaked trapped but got flustered...). It would have played very differently if he had dropped a Defense Grid at some stage in that game. It was a very interesting match.

So obviously, I was very pleased with the deck VS the blue match-ups. But clearly, I must do some more work against the Aggro + Sphere decks:

  • Maybe remove Opal and put 16th Land
  • Maybe cut 1 Salvager for 4th Mentor (but I really don't want to be known as one of those guys never running less than 4 Mentors)
  • Maybe find room for 3rd Sword MD. That would leave some space for a least 1 Fragmentize in SB
  • Maybe remove Skullclamp which is mostly for the Blue match-ups and probably too cute against aggro (Note: I wanted to stay at 14 Artifacts minimum MD to fuel Thirst, PO, Tolarian).
  • Maybe play a Meekstone as a Trinket Mage's silver bullet. It's an artifact so possibly a half-decent permanent answer against some Spheres & Wires and it fuels Thirst, PO, Tolarian.
  • Maybe replace Pyrite Spellbomb with Aether Spellbomb as it can deal with Smashers, Oath dudes & TinkerBot that seems to regain popularity recently and accessorily bounce my own dudes to rescue them or simply for some extra value (Trinket Mage!). Pyrite provides another answer in case of Moat & Planewalkers but thinking about it further, I will definitely swap for Aether Spellbomb next time. Smasher is the worst.

All in all, the deck was thrown together the night before so doing some real testing & tuning against the Aggro + Sphere match-ups is probably half the secret. It was a tonne of fun regardless and 2 x PO + 2 x Remora (in side) played very well. I think it is the correct recipe and "2 PO only" might become more of a thing in Control decks.

last edited by tribet

@tribet that about 65 cards within what I thought up when making my original post. Did you consider Ballista over spellbomb? How often did you win through Mentor beats instead of Salvagers combo? Was Salvagers worth it over just playing another Mentor and tuning it towards pushing Mentor?

last edited by enderfall
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