April 24th, 2017 Banned and Restricted update: GUSH AND PROBE/TOP in Legacy

Noble Fish has officially had a card restricted out of it. What a time to be alive!

Their reasoning is surprisingly cognizant. Unfortunately, I can just as easily seeing this change devastating the format.

Alright, it happened. Can we all calm down for a month or two now?

wow, Gush is restricted AGAIN? crazy...

So Wasteland may be a thing again? Also, Poor Young Pyromancer.

And the peasants rejoiced.

@hyperborea "So Wasteland may be a thing again?".

What the fuck format have you been playing, Momir Basic?!

Wow, I did not expect this.

@MSolymossy I mean it'll be a bigger thing.

@Hrishi I expected maybe one or the other but not both. Glad they didn't hit Monastery Mentor the card specifically though.

Let's all celebrate by putting Dark Confidants into our decks!

@desolutionist Ballista is still a main-deck four-of, let's not go crazy here.

@Prospero but DC draws Ballista for 0 life, what value


And Sphere was a maindeck 9 of; that didn't stop people from playing Gush, Probe, Misstep 😜

So, I think I'm missing a step in their logic. I understand their statement to mean:

  1. Mentor is powerful because it casts lots of spells and gains value from those spells
  2. Shops is the natural enemy because it limits spells
  3. Mentor is made more powerful by casting more free spells
  4. Shops counters with tax effects, which also limit the rest of the metagame
  5. Therefore, Removing (at least) 6 copies of free spells from Mentor decks will
    (a) weaken Mentor decks
    (b) reduce the inclination for Shops decks to play tax effects

My sticking point is 5b - why wouldn't Shops maintain an effectively same count for tax effects which will now be more powerful against Mentor (as they are replacing free spells with spells that cost mana) and continue to shut down the other decks in the metagame.

I'm unwilling to say it was a bad call, but I'm interested in diving into the thought process here because they actively stopped Shops from playing tax effects when they restricted golem to allow for more spells and the metagame has still become Policeman vs Spellslinger, so now weakening the Spellslinger should lead to the Policeman fewer tax effects than the effective ones the deck was using before and I find that counter-intuitive. It just sounds like they've set up the format to be wholly dominated by Shops again.

edit: I also wish that they let someone off the restricted list because I view it generally as a prisoner exchange system, but at the same time, I can respect the willingness to only make one change at a time.

last edited by boxian


I was previously calm and only now I'm upset! I felt the format was doing fine, and these restrictions are unnecessary. I see no need to weaken mentor decks when shops is just as powerful or even more powerful than mentor. I don't believe Sphere effects needed help, and I don't believe these restrictions will "Open up the metagame".

Perfect. Just amazing. What a great day for Vintage.

@boxian said in April 24th, 2017 Banned and Restricted update: GUSH AND PROBE/TOP in Legacy:

(b) reduce the inclination for Shops decks to play tax effects

This is not their logic. Their logic is that people will have to stop playing shitty manabases now that they can't justify them with free spells.

@cutlex so "Hopefully the move away from "free" spells in the Mentor decks will lessen the impact of the Workshop deck's various Sphere of Resistance effects, opening up the metagame."

is actually "play more lands dumb dumbs"?

See, I knew I was missing something! Thanks

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