Brown Must Die, G
Non-creature artifacts are Forests

Pretty sure that fixes our brown problem without wrecking any other formats. It's also cute in that it nerfs Vault, Lotus, and Defense Grid.

Do we get a Blue Must Die too?

Agree, something like this

Non brown must die <>
Non artifacts creatures are forests
Islands give <> mana

would be equally absurd.

In fact you have Pulverize, which is pretty effective if you don't mind commiting 3 cards (usually you will take more than 3 artifacts in the process, so it seems pretty reasonable). And it's free, so I will expect it's playable under several spheres. Serenity costs 2 and takes 1 turn, but with only 1 card you can take 10. Mud can be oppressing, but there are a bunch of options to have a chance against them. Of course playing 4 lotus lands makes it harder, but any prepared mage should have game against mud.

Fixed Choke, G
Split Second
Lands and artifacts enter the battlefield tapped. Nonbasic lands, Islands, and artifacts do not untap during their controller's untap step.

Don't you think that just spawns a Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch, and Deathrite Shaman based blue deck? I mean, that completely wrecks storm, gush, and brown. And I'm pretty sure it just leads to Birds Blue. It's hard to imagine a blue hate effect that doesn't get played by blue decks against other blue decks AND actually works.

These cards are absurd. I feel like the delve mechanic was WotCs chance to make a scaleable Disenchant. Where a fetch / waste could fuel it and making it not CMC 1 would dodge Derpstep for anti-Oath purposes.

We have no commander set this fall (?) and will have to rely on Conspiracy and standard legal stuff for eternal focused cards (like Priest / Flusterstorm / Strix).

What's the goal of this proposal? If it is to illustrate that there is a way to express card text that kills established Vintage archetypes, then job magnificently done.

Otherwise, the suggestions lack spirit, they lack flavor, they try to merge concepts that should not be merged, they are inappropriately costed and most importantly, they don't and won't inspire any sort of innovation in deck building which makes the game worth obsessing about.

last edited by ribby

On the old forums, I had a post that proposed a card after Grafdigger's Cage was spoiled:

Goblins 4Ever
1, Artifact
Oath of Druids just mills your opponent.
Yawgmoth's Will does nothing.
Dredge has to cast its critters.
Tinker can't find Blightsteel or Trike.

I think the first card I proposed (non-critter artifacts are Forests) is printable and honestly a pretty fair card. It helps your opponent cast something like Spine of Ish-Sah or Karn to deal with it. It's not insurmountable, but it requires a much less focused strategy.

I don't think it's possible to nerf blue with a printing without destroying Modern and Legacy. I think we just need to restrict the blue fetches, ABU duals, and the two Islands. That way Gush is a niche strategy and blue at least fractures into XYu instead of UWx and UBx.

I don't think destroying blue is a good thing to do in vintage. If you want to nerf blue, play white trash. You can play Grand Abolisher avoid blue doing something in your turn. Play canonist to allow only 1 non artifact spell. Spirit the the labyrinth to storm draw engines. Leonin arbiter/mindcensor to prevent fetchlands and tutors. Wastelands to punish greedy manabases. Stony silence for mana denial and vault/bomberman combos. Swords/paths for unfair creatures. Aegis of the gods protects from oath, gifts, tendrils, terapies and more. Add green if you want for Choke or Gaddock. Add red for moons and direct damage. Add black for token destruction, discard. There are lots of things to do in order to nerf blue, but then be ready to suffer against other decks.

And 1 enchantment that destroys a whole deck for one mana is not fair at all, it's absurd. To be honest Graffdiggers's cage also seemed absurd against oath and dredge and they haven't dissapeared by any means, but these card suggestions go too far.

@xouman I hope someone plays all of those in hate bears for the next VSL season.

The reason that oath is still around is that people forgot about it and stopped side boarding against it after it disappeared from major top eights due to the printing of priest and cage.

The problem with hate bears is that there are 3 cmc sorceries that completely wreck your board position and tempo. Could you imagine the equivalent being printed?

Only Permanents Stick Around
2B, Sorcery
Split Second
As an additional cost, pay X life.
Target player reveals his or her hand and discards all instants and sorceries with cmc <= X. Shuffle that player's library.

That card would never see print, but yet Toxic Deluge is wiping boards at the same cost and the same potential for interaction from critters.

Sorcery and split second don't combine. Change "Target player" for "all players" and I agree with you that it would be as fair as Toxic deluge, or even more since toxic deluge kills creatures that have been played (thus after mana investment). However nowadays we have Mind twist and nobody plays it, so I don't think the former would be played regularly.

Split Second is important so that spells can't interact with it. All players is a fair change. I think a split second Mind Twist would see play, for what it's worth.

Split second is nice, but it's not going to be seem frequently. And I was trying to state that Split second and sorcery don't match since a spell with split second can be cast at any moment, being effectively an instant and not a sorcery.

If a card like this gets a fow, it's already card advantage, so I'm not sure it needs some kind of uncounterable to improve dramatically. BTW there is also Sirocco, which has an "alternative cost" but never saw play even in burn sideboards.

Split second and flash are different. Take a quick glance at Sulphur Elemental and Quagnoth. One has flash, the other doesn't.

Sirocco only hits blue instants. If it hit spells it'd be banned.

Lacks good-natured satire and/or cannibalism references.

Well, someone did eat a Time Walk at a tourney once. I think eating all the power is a modest proposal for dealing with blue being overpowered...

@AmbivalentDuck I was that persons ride and room mate for that weekend scg roanake. absolutely hilarious.

would you believe me if I told you he was now a successful lawyer?

It's April Fools Day, so yes! Now that he's better financed, has he considered eating a beta Black Lotus to prove that he's above cheating? Some of us still had our doubts after the Time Walk was chewed, but not swallowed. Swallowing is how you show you're sincere.

At first I thought this was an April fools post then noticed who started the thread...

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