What do you want from vintage.

Winterstar

I posted the following in the SMIP thread:

Any time cards are restricted that fundamentally change the nature of how a deck archetype plays, new decks/deck designs/cards take their place.

And because these restrictions don't take place in a vacuum, it can be hard to evaluate the result of the restrictions alongside the plethora of new printings.

So the inevitable question is "what do I think the metagame will look like if _______ is restricted" and with the follow up of "will I like what comes next."

In way of example:

The chalice restriction saw major change tot he workshop pillar. Previous builds like Martello became sub-optimal. Over the winter of the restriction would see the rise of ravager shops as the dominant workshop archetype.

I occasionally ask players if they preferred playing against martello or ravager shops- the answers I've gotten are usually split.

Ravager shops gave rise to the restriction of Lodestone Golem, which in turn saw the redefinition of the workshop pillar into the thorn pillar and the evolution of the Eldrazi decks. Workshop has continued along the ravager path, with occasional terra nova and uba stax variants poking their heads up (often dependent on where Mentor decks sit, because smokestack isn't an awesome card against a token producer...)

To my imagination, restricting gush will eventually lead to the question of "did you prefer playing against gush mentor or _____ mentor" in much the same way that chalice elicits a question about martello vs. ravager.

But then again, I'm not sure we are in a place where anything needs to be restricted. Many of the people who said that the lodestone golem restriction really needed to happen for the health of vintage are some of the same voices saying that the vintage metagame is incredibly unhealthy now.

Which means that the restriction did not meet what they wanted. Note well I am not arguing that Lodestone staying would have created a more healthy metagame, nor am I suggesting that the restriction of Lodestone was a terrible event- I'm simply remarking that it did not satisfy. This could be for several reasons- again, restrictions don't stop cards from being printed and deck evolution from continuing.

Which then creates several interesting questions that wappla alluded to in an earlier post: what are players wanting out of vintage?

...

So, what do you want out of vintage? What makes your ideal Vintage?

Chase_Dagger

@Winterstar I really like Vintage how it is right now. I don't see a need for any more restrictions. All I want from vintage is a slow stream of new and playable cards.

Serracollector

I would love for a lot more to come off tge list. Im all for having 4 Brainstorm, 4 Vamps, 4 Mysticals, 4 Merchant Scroll, 4 Lodestone, 4 Chalice, 4 Strip Mine, and 4 Library of Alexandria. Give those Derpsteps and Gushs more targets! Free the cards!

Hrishi

@Serracollector I agree with this. I favour the smallest restricted list possible. The reason I fall into the camp of wanting a Gush restriction is because it seems to me that having the smallest restricted list possible is not an attainable goal from the way the DCI have been proceeding. I'd love it if I was proved wrong and it was attainable, because I'd love to play with a playset of Necropotence.

I might be in the minority but I really do not care very much about new and playable cards from newer sets. I'm playing Vintage to play with old cards, not new ones. Therefore, I look forward to new sets not because I want new playables, but because I'm hoping for more unrestrictions.

Smmenen

I prefer a format that is essentially libertarian: live and let live.

I prefer a Vintage format that let's people play all of their cards to the maximal extent possible, as long as it doesn't totally dominate the format.

I prefer a Vintage format that allows players to enjoy the same cards and strategies for a lifetime.

I prefer a Vintage format where only the most oppressive or unfun strategies and tactics require restriction.

I prefer a Vintage restricted list that is as small as reasonably possible.

Dumpsterac1d

Personally, I want to make weird decks and watch them work (or most likely fail). The fun for me is in deck construction.

For vintage? To be honest, it doesn't matter so long as I can play all cards from all of Magic. Whatever stance the DCI takes, I'll likely still be trying to make Hermit Druid work.

Unless they restrict Hermit Druid... The bastards!

thecravenone

@Winterstar said in What do you want from vintage.:

So, what do you want out of vintage? What makes your ideal Vintage?

I want tournaments like the Old School tournament at Eternal Weekend.

I want tournaments that look like this

I want my friends to question my judgement as I tell them I'm headed to Team Tusk.

I want to sit around a camp fire and listen to Ben Perry tell stories until we're too drunk to sit or the sun comes up, whichever comes second.

I've done the math. If you win every major Vintage tournament, you might cover your travel expenses. Vintage is not about winning. Vintage is about having fun. Vintage is about the community. I suspect this is why Vintage online has not been more popular - I can't do the above things alone in my office.

draw3

I miss the old days of pre Time Vault power errata removal, where decks like Welder were prominent. I prefer the old spells rule days and not the current creature heavy meta.

Shaman Ben

@thecravenone I am looking forward to drinking with you at Eternal Weekend, whenever and wherever it ends up being.

Vintage is Love.

thecravenone

@draw3 said in What do you want from vintage.:

I miss the old days of pre Time Vault power errata removal, where decks like Welder were prominent. I prefer the old spells rule days and not the current creature heavy meta.

One of my favorite thing about having frequent proxy tournaments is that you can play whatever you want. If you lose, so what? Buy-in was cheap and there's another tournament just around the corner. Everyone else starts to notice this, too. So you have many people bringing "rogue" decks. And you have awesome opportunities to exploit local weaknesses. I noticed players slacking on Dredge hate until I showed up with Pitch Dredge. Others focus on fun. We've got a guy planning to bring Gorger next time around because if he's going to play Vintage, he wants to do the dumbest thing possible.

10k

As a relatively new vintage player, what I like about vintage is playing against peoples' busted decks filled cards I'll never afford, at a table of 12 at a GP side event in Australia and stomping the shit out of at least half of my matches with Eldrazi.

I love it because I get to meet real deep magic-heads who; run stores, have played for eternity or, just love the game even more than I do. I've made much better friends playing vintage, 7pt/Australian Highlander (seriously the best format ever made, even with vintage in the mix) and legacy than I have playing formats where people actually give a shit about planeswalker points.

Griselbrother

I want unrestricted

Balance
Channel
Flash
Imperial Seal
Lodestone Golem
Necropotence
Ponder

Prospero

This post is deleted!

Sledger

I want to cast Ancestral Recall.
I want to cast Regrowth on Ancestral Recall.
I want to use Babiest Jace to flashback Regrowth on Ancestral Recall.
I want to use Snapcaster Mage to flashback Ancestral Recall.

themonadnomad

No restricted creatures
More answer cards to the perceived problems with the format

thecravenone

@Sledger said in What do you want from vintage.:

I want to cast Ancestral Recall.
I want to cast Regrowth on Ancestral Recall.
I want to use Babiest Jace to flashback Regrowth on Ancestral Recall.
I want to use Snapcaster Mage to flashback Ancestral Recall.

#UnrestrictAncestral

vaughnbros

Vintage is by definition a format where all cards are legal.

I wish that the DCI did a better job managing the restricted list so that more cards were playable. A massive number of uniquely powerful and interesting cards seemed to get drowned out by a handful of cards that should not realistically be unrestricted. Every unrestricted card should have an easily accessible answer.

MaximumCDawg

Heh, you didn't take my suggestion and limit people to a single sentence.

I can do it, though: I want Vintage to be a place where I can brew with all my cards, regardless of how broken, without having to worry about some of them being unusable because professional players are doing too well with them.

@thecravenone said in What do you want from vintage.:

#UnrestrictAncestral

Legacy is the format where you can play four brainstorms. It's only fair that Vintage be the format of four Ancestrals.

Can't let those people show us up.

studderingdave

Minimal restrictions
Maximum community involvement
Stories and revels for all!