When to start allowing a new set in proxy tournaments?
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As our tournaments allow 100% proxies, we are in a somewhat unique position that it is possible to begin using newly-spoiled cards as soon as they are spoiled. How early is too early to allow them?
As an example, we're not going to allow them this weekend because there could be spoilers coming out the day of the tournament. However, our next tournament is four days after the full spoiler is released, so we're considering allowing AKH cards in that tournament.
If you'd like to vote, we have a poll going here.
I must admit, there's some temptation to be aggressive and early in order to have some of the first real-world results with a new set.
Quote from: Stormanimagus on March 16, 2016, 06:39:41 pm
>Instead of tearing things down we should calmly explain our opinions. -
I prefer when TO's allow the cards as soon as the full spoiler is released. Of course, it's way more important to poll the players who are going to be in the event rather than get a broad opinion online. Regionally players seem to have different opinions on the subject, so figure out what your playerbase wants out of the event.
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@Brass-Man said in When to start allowing a new set in proxy tournaments?:
spoiler is released. Of course, it's way more important to poll the
If you are allowing proxy cards before they are physically printed but are spoiled doesn't that mean you play with cards for various lengths of time? I'd rather wait for official release schedules that are consistent rather than play with some cards for more/less time depending on how far in advance they are spoiled. One of the exciting things about magic is it's always changing environments thanks to new printings and isn't cutting early spoiled proxy environments just cutting into that?
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If I run an event on prerelease weekend, the new set is legal. But I dont usually do that so it rarely matters. Typically I run an event on release weekend, and they are legal.
The great thing about being unsanctioned is being able to do whatever you want. YOU ARE NOT YOUR DCI NUMBER #mtgunderground
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My preference is to make them legal when they are legal in sanctioned play. I prefer to maintain as many links as possible to sanctioned play, and divergences in the card pool are a big enough break that I would not play in a tournament where they were allowed.
The other issue for me is that it can be awkward enough dealing with proxies of the obvious cards, let alone cards with unfamiliar art and walls of text.
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Proxy tournaments exist so that people can play even if they cannot afford the expensive cards, If you have to proxy cards that were just spoiled many people would not make the 15 proxy limit that is allowed for most proxy tournaments.
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I like to play with real cards, so if they haven't been distributed, they shouldn't be legal.
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I'd want the rules document at the least to be out for the set. So like pre-release weekend.
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It's no good having a dead tournament. The new cards should certainly be legal after the prerelease. I wish Waterbury were allowing the new cards.
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@tsoatt said in When to start allowing a new set in proxy tournaments?:
many people would not make the 15 proxy limit that is allowed for most proxy tournaments.
@thecravenone said in When to start allowing a new set in proxy tournaments?:
our tournaments allow 100% proxies
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@The-Atog-Lord I totally understand the sentiment about the waterbury representing a meta that will cease to exist a week after the event. I look at that tournament as a social gathering as much as a competitive event though so its not as much of an issue for me.
Don't trust your secrets to the sea.
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@rikter said in When to start allowing a new set in proxy tournaments?:
@The-Atog-Lord I totally understand the sentiment about the waterbury representing a meta that will cease to exist a week after the event. I look at that tournament as a social gathering as much as a competitive event though so its not as much of an issue for me.
On one hand, being one of the only large scale tournaments in the US, I'd rather its results be more meaningful. On the other, being large scale right at the end of a particular format (ie, LEA-AER) makes its results stand out as a sign of exactly where the format was before the new cards were added.
Follow up question to my original post: If allowing new cards, do we play by the new rules or the old? I'm pretty sure it's not relevant to any remotely-commonly played deck this time around but it could be next time.
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@thecravenone what do you mean by playing with new rules or old?
Don't trust your secrets to the sea.
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@rikter said in When to start allowing a new set in proxy tournaments?:
@thecravenone what do you mean by playing with new rules or old?
In general, when the rules are changed, they come into effect when the new set becomes legal. More specifically, split card CMCs are changing with AKH. If we allow the new AKH cards, should we also play with the new AKH rules?
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Seriously, I don't think TMD is a good place to get an answer to this question. There is no objectively correct answer. Talk to your playerbase, find out what motivates them to play, find out what makes them more or less willing to travel to your event. Don't let someone else's metagame kill your tournament.
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@thecravenone In for a penny, in for a pound, Id include the rule changes. Brassman makes a good point though in that ultimately its the preferences of your players that count.
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@Brass-Man said in When to start allowing a new set in proxy tournaments?:
Seriously, I don't think TMD is a good place to get an answer to this question. There is no objectively correct answer. Talk to your playerbase, find out what motivates them to play, find out what makes them more or less willing to travel to your event. Don't let someone else's metagame kill your tournament.
Exactly. The worst outcome is letting people who aren't playing in the tournament make decisions for those who are playing in the tournament.
The Vintage format lives on broken cards, and I see no reason why there shouldn't be broken cards that benefit my particular deck of choice to an inordinate degree. I mean, that's only fair.
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@mediumsteve said in When to start allowing a new set in proxy tournaments?:
@Brass-Man said in When to start allowing a new set in proxy tournaments?:
Seriously, I don't think TMD is a good place to get an answer to this question. There is no objectively correct answer. Talk to your playerbase, find out what motivates them to play, find out what makes them more or less willing to travel to your event. Don't let someone else's metagame kill your tournament.
Exactly. The worst outcome is letting people who aren't playing in the tournament make decisions for those who are playing in the tournament.
This is all nonsense. I have met some of your players. They do not know what they want or what is good for them. Make an arbitrary decision, and pretend you are right no matter how terrible it proves to be. If people confront you, remind them that somehow, some way, they let you be responsible for making decisions about their life, and now they are going to have to deal with finding a seemingly empty pizza box that is actually the home of an overweight iguana under the cover of their rarely used record player. They did this to themselves, whatever this happens to be.
LOVE NOT LAW
YOU ARE NOT YOUR DCI NUMBER
MISHRA VS EVERYBODY
