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    New possible Hatebear printings to deal with the format?

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    • Stormanimagus
      Stormanimagus last edited by Stormanimagus

      So it occurs to me that there has been a lot of negative press lately about Gush and that folks are calling for its restriction but what if we just printed new cards that dealt with the archetype better? Since I have been predominantly known as a pilot of "Hatebear" decks I would like to make this a thread about possibly future printings. I will get the ball rolling with a concept a discussed with my friend today on the phone. First let me preface by showing a natural progression of 2 cards that lead to the second one being VERY good in Vintage:

      Imposing Sovereign
      Thalia, Heretic Cathar

      Now I'm pretty sure folks know the second card, but not all of you might know the first card. This is because the first card is unplayed in Vintage the second card is readily playable. They share a color, creature type and half of the ability and Imposing Sovereign costs 1 less to cast so what gives you might ask? Why is Sovereign totally unplayable if half of its ability is on a readily playable card? The reason is that two abilities is exponentially better than 1 in Vintage (especially if one of the abilities also affects mana development). So now I'd like to reverse engineer a different card to demonstrate how a similar transition could lead to a great staple card for the format. First I give you:

      Angel of Jubilation

      Next I give you my proposed hatebear:

      Righteous Theurge

      1W - Human Cleric

      Flash

      If a player would pay life to cast a spell or activate an ability they must pay 1 or that spell/ability is countered.

      2/2

      I believe this card would solve a lot of issues with Phyrexian Mana, Fetches, Force of Will and also hit Dredge a bit and Arcbound Ravager.

      What do you guys think? Way too broken? Possible format defining? Other ideas for different cards? I want to spark some discussion, but I'd also like to ask a couple things of you:

      1. Make sure the card isn't just silly nor would it break other formats (cause then it won't see print.)
      2. Make sure you defend your choice.
      3. You may also comment on previous choices and try to "improve" them or make them more fair, but please be civil and constructive.

      Happy theorycrafting!

      -Storm

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • ?
        A Former User last edited by

        Here's one:

        1B - Doomsayer
        Human Cleric
        0/7
        "At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy all creatures"

        Stormanimagus 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Stormanimagus
          Stormanimagus @Guest last edited by

          @desolutionist This wouldn't deal with mentor at all. They would just cast another one later and own you. That would be my first critique of such a card.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • S
            Serracollector last edited by Serracollector

            Monk of Balance
            WG
            2/2
            Human Monk
            Each player may only put one non-land permanent onto the battlefield per turn. If a permanent would enter the battlefield after one already has it is instead exiled, and its enter the battlefield effects are countered. (Myr battlesphere, etc etc)

            Great with flash creatures. Bad for combo and Mentor. Interesting versus MUD.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • wappla
              wappla last edited by

              Sister of Runes
              W - Human Cleric

              Pay 2 life: Target creature you control gains protection from the opponent of your choice until end of turn.
              2/1

              Stormanimagus 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • Stormanimagus
                Stormanimagus @wappla last edited by Stormanimagus

                @wappla said in New possible Hatebear printings to deal with the format?:

                Sister of Runes
                W - Human Cleric

                Pay 2 life: Target creature you control gains protection from the opponent of your choice until end of turn.
                2/1

                Ooo. Pretty spicy. I like it. Maybe if it was just 1 life that might be a bit more practical? Too powerful?

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Stormanimagus
                  Stormanimagus last edited by Stormanimagus

                  Ok folks, after talking to Danny Batterman about my design he thinks it would be way to broken so I've adjusted things in my initial post to reflect a new critter. I gave it flash to make it able to "counter" a fetch if the opponent doesn't also have mana up.

                  Ok, next card idea:

                  Master of Orbs

                  1W - Human Wizard

                  Each noncreature spell that would cost less than 2 mana to cast costs 2 mana to cast.

                  As Long as Master of Orbs is untapped, players can't untap more than 2 permanents during their untap steps.

                  2/2

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • xouman
                    xouman last edited by

                    Only 2 mana? Sounds quite playable, and won't affect other formats too much so it could be printable. Unfortunately it hits storm really hard (and at this moment storm is not a deck to punish imho).

                    Mad Mage - RR
                    Human Wizard
                    If a player would draw a card from a blue instant/sorcery, he/she discards a card instead.
                    Whenever a white creature enters the battlefield, Mad Mage does 2 damage to it and 2 to itself.
                    2/3

                    It attacks blue and white, as red did in the old times.

                    Priest of blood - 1RR
                    Goblin shaman
                    Sacrifice priest after you have been assigned damage: prevent all that damage and deal it to all other creatures and opponents instead
                    3/2

                    Say goodbye to alpha attacks (mentor, pyromancer, mud, eldrazi, dredge...)

                    "Eron would be much less of a hassle if only he were mortal."
                    -Reyhan, Samite alchemist

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • tsoatt
                      tsoatt TMD Supporter last edited by

                      We should not be asking for hatebears, we should be putting answers in colors like black and green. White is becoming much too strong as of late and we need to fix the color pie. We need cards that will encourage people to not just choose white because it has all the the answers.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • ?
                        A Former User last edited by

                        Last I checked, there were two rather strong Anti-Gush hatebear decks. One just won Euro Champs and the other won EE6 a couple of weeks back. I think you are misunderstanding what the actual gripe is, Storm...

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                        • S
                          Serracollector last edited by

                          Master of Orbs devastates PO, Mentor, Belcher, Storm, Dredge, Grixis, and Landstill even. It would completely hands down wreck tge format. Way too strong. As for other colors? How about

                          Terra Shaman
                          Human Shaman
                          1G
                          1/4
                          Split Second, Hexproof
                          When a player casts a non-creature spell, deal 1 damage to him or her and each creature he or she controls plus 1 damage for each spell played before. (bad on wording, but meant to be anti mentor/tokens, even with buffs etc.)

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • Brass Man
                            Brass Man last edited by

                            Card design is fun, but it isn't really about vintage. Moving to off-topic.

                            Stormanimagus 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • Stormanimagus
                              Stormanimagus @Brass Man last edited by

                              @Brass-Man

                              How is card design specifically for Vintage NOT about Vintage? Like seriously, wtf?

                              Hrishi Brass Man 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • Hrishi
                                Hrishi @Stormanimagus last edited by Hrishi

                                @Stormanimagus Well presumably because most user designed cards don't actually see the light of day. So it's not really going to affect Vintage in any way unless somehow one of the designs here ends up being made, which I find quite unlikely.

                                On topic, I'm not a fan of designing hatebears to address problems (both real and perceived) with a metagame. I don't find it very fun facing random human who I've never seen before on the battlefield whose text reads "you cannot do x", where x is something that people typically do in Vintage. I think we've had enough of those designs and they're not interesting in the slightest, in my opinion.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                • Brass Man
                                  Brass Man @Stormanimagus last edited by

                                  In the same way that a thread about Contract from Below in an otherwise-vintage deck wouldn't really be about vintage strategy - it would be talking about a homebrew format with a similar, but different, list of legal cards.

                                  As an ex-game designer I'm fascinated by what makes cards and metagames balanced, and I'll admit that learning card evaluations skills is useful, but it's not exactly vintage strategy.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • igooazoo
                                    igooazoo last edited by

                                    Palinchron Spirit Guide
                                    2U - Spirit

                                    Remove Palinchron Spirit Guide in your hand from the game: Add U to your mana pool.

                                    “A beginning is a very delicate time.”

                                    ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • S
                                      Serracollector last edited by

                                      Ahem, that would be Cephalid Spirit Guide obviously.

                                      Stormanimagus 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Stormanimagus
                                        Stormanimagus @Serracollector last edited by

                                        @Serracollector

                                        absolutely NOT giving a blue a spirit guide! Have you no shame guys? HAVE YOU NO SHAME!!!???

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • ?
                                          A Former User @igooazoo last edited by

                                          @igooazoo

                                          Palinchron Spirit Guide
                                          2U - Illusion Spirit

                                          Hexproof, Flying

                                          Remove ~this~ in your hand from the game: Add U to your mana pool. If this mana would be spent on an Instant or Sorcery, you may cast that card ignoring all cost modifiers and other casting restrictions imposed by other cards in play, and that spell gains uncountability.

                                          2/2

                                          @Stormanimagus - I have no shame.

                                          Stormanimagus mediumsteve 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • Stormanimagus
                                            Stormanimagus @Guest last edited by

                                            @ChubbyRain

                                            I would ask you not to spam this thread with frivolous drivel. Thank you.

                                            ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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