@serracollector I'm just thinking of Company. I have no idea since I haven't tested. It just feels like... well, like a turn behind Workshop since you have to play a land to play Cobra and pass the turn. Workshop comes down and taps right away... Not trying to argue. Test it. Go nuts and let us know what happens. I'm glad you are interested.
Bumping this thread for some new stuff I'm trying. Nobody's really utilized Kambal, so I cut a few non-human creatures from the must-include white hatebears list and added Caverns to my list. Finding a few humans to fill in.
Two things I noticed while playing a LOT of hatebears: 1) topdeck-mode sucks very much; and 2) it is difficult to be "reactive", much less proactive without any kind of card selection except for 2-3 Recruiter of the Guard, so much of the time either I'm wishing I had one creature and not another, and no way to reliably get it.
Black can solve this with Humans.
Ixalan has a card that I'm very interested in trying, indeed:
Kitesail Freebooter (1B)
When Kitesail Freebooter enters the battlefield, target opponent reveals his or her hand. You choose a noncreature, nonland card from it. Exile that card until Kitesail Freebooter leaves the battlefield."
IMO this is on-par with Tidehollow Sculler in that it's a Human and has some kind of evasion. The P/T arrangement is a little unfortunate, it would be nice to take opposing Jaces and Dacks down a few loyalty points, but this kind of uncounterable effect (with cavern) is in my opinion what is lacking in a lot of hatebears decks, something proactive that, at the very least, can delay broken things from happening until other bears lock them out. (Added bonus that if this actually sucks, there's just Sculler waiting to fill the slot).
In addition to Kambal, Freebooter, and other situationally good hatebears that might come up should they need to (SB Yixlid Jailer, some jank like Royal Assassin), black gives access to Bob, which solves the topdeck mode pretty handily. Bob also "draws" cards underneath a Spirit of the Labyrinth.
My go-to before this was to count on drawing cards as the Monarch with Palace Jailer, but this almost never lead me to victory, someone would attack with a Ramunap Excavator (or any card that has 3 toughness) and I'd have to choose between letting a Canonist die so they can cast all the shite they want, or letting them draw an extra card, sometimes for the rest of the game. Palace Jailer actually very sucks, and a 2/2 for 4 mana that has the capability of giving the opponent an extra card is very, very bad. Without a way to actually stop Elemental tokens, Monk tokens, and fipped Delver (and again, any card with 3 toughness that likes to attack every turn), Jailer is a recipe for disaster. YMMV, but Jailer literally has never done what it needs to for me. It incentivizes attacks from your opponent, which is very stupid for a hatebears deck to want - we're supposed to be the ones going on the offensive. They will find ways to get their creature back -and- become the monarch in the process. There has to be another card other than Jailer and Banisher Priest (which is still preferable), and I think digging deep enough can find us a B Human with a low CMC that can probably do it.
I think the B/W version of the deck should be tested, and I have a list I'll be running very soon, just have to get a few more cards. I had to give up some of the "situational" hate cards like Spirit of the Labyrinth, but adding to the card pool with Black makes adjusting numbers very easy. I'll probably do a writeup if I get any results.
@lordeng1ish I'm actually at a loss for what to do here. DRS is very important for the deck, and spyglass really does a number on it, making it a better 'thorn' to fight the decks mana production. Fewer thorns = fewer eldrazi, so strix is not as important either. I still really like Leovold's position in the meta and many have pivoted back to BUG, but having access to REB/Pyro is the natural progression there to fight other Leo's on the stack. The deck might actually move into a more keeper/4-5CC direction and utilize a City/Mana Confluence mana base to sidestep spyglass (since most current 3+ color decks rely on fetches quite heavily).
I updated the OP with the current list I'm running. I was trying out Balance for a bit, and it seemed great in several spots; but it never quite got there for me. I may try it out again, but I'd shaved a land for it which I regret. Back up to 15 which seems to be the sweet spot.
I went down on a Gush since it felt kinda weird at times having 2, but 4 may be the correct amount.
Also squeezed a Dack into the list which has felt great so far. I've been happy even just using the +1.
@stuart I have been playing with 2-3 MD online the last few weeks. I was lucky enough to play against @Oestrus in the Vintage Challenge this past weekend and did get to have the ultimate joy of naming Bazaar with Spyglass game 1 against Dredge. Then Erin proceeded to steam roll me games 2 and 3 with 4/4 and 5/5s. Oh the irony. I am supposed to be the one attacking with 4/4 and 5/5s.
It's hard to evaluate the card still. Besides the best play of naming Bazaar, the fact that it lets you see your opponents hand is critical early on. Waiting to cast uncounterable TKS is fun, but by then you may have already had your Temple wasted or you set COTV to the wrong number. I have named Tarn (hitting 2 tarns) to only have the opponent draw Volc. I have named Dack to have the opponent draw JTMS.
I am still on the 2 MD plan right now. For EW, it is a bit different because of budgetary concerns with players. Dredge will probably be more represented in paper than online. Remember priest and Cage do nothing against Hollow one and Gurmag Angler. Stopping Bazaar does stop both of these cards from landing, indirectly. Spyglass is the best at this.
Too much to respond from thoroughly at the moment, but I will say this. I tested Cruise and don't like it without playing Dack Faydens. Dig is just better. I chose top to I could smooth my draws better. I don't want more artifact fast mana because I play this as a landstill/grindy control deck first and foremost. The worst thing would be playing a Standstill and drawing moxes. My list is a direct reflection of my playstyle. If I wanted a more aggressive oath list with faster and more aggressive plays, it certainly wouldn't be a landstill variation.
@Islandswamp I have been thinking about Omniscience builds for the past couple of weeks and here I see that your list is two months old. Oh well! In theory I think that the Omniscience builds are the best suited right now.
Also I think we can shave a Misstep for another spell right now, preferably something like an Abrupt Decay which interacts favorably with Priest, Displacer, both Thalias, etc.
There are other options, but it turns out that most of them are good only in really specific situations where in most situations Griselbrand is quite good. I agree on the multiples thing, if I were playing control oath right now i would split 1 griselbrand w/ 1-2 Rune Scarred Demon. I am not, because in this deck, just ignoring containment priest, oathing twice and winning with a memory's journey return'd yawgmoth's will has been real good.
Post board against shops I think your best bet creature wise is a mix of blazing archon (or elesh norn) and griseldad. Blazing Archon literally turns off their chances of winning against most modern shops lists, and griselbrand helps you win the game before they get a trike with enough counters to kill either the archon or you. Elesh Norn has been good, but sometimes you need to oath against, and it doesn't win through Wurmcoil which is frustrating.
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