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Author Topic: 4 color fish - aka Wizard Shaman Sniping  (Read 3069 times)
serracollector
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« on: December 30, 2012, 05:53:57 PM »

Many of the cards from Return to Ravnica have caught my eye, mostly in particular Deathrite Shaman, and Guttersnipe.  At first I thought that it would work best in a storm shell, but found it better in a defensive shell, trying to keep constant pressure on through the use of Shaman/Sniper/Wizards.  Anyways this is the decklist with thoughts/comment.

Creatures: (13)

4 Dark Confidant
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Trygon Predator
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Guttersnipe

Counters/Board Control: (17)

1 Izzet Charm
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Mental Misstep
1 Steel Sabotage
4 Force of Will
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Mana Drain
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Draw/Tutors: (7)

1 Ponder
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm

Mana: (23)

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 City of Brass

Side Board: (15)

SB: 1 Steel Sabotage
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Trygon Predator
SB: 1 Nature's Claim
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge


Deathrite Shaman - he continues to grow in numbers, and for good reason.  As I said to some friends when he was first revealed, and I still stick by it, he is the best 1 drop ever printed.  Period.  Can be cast from off 2 different commonly used colors, and has 6 abilities, as each is actually 2 abilities in 1.  And all 6 are relevant.  Anyways, this guy + gutternsipe and any spell in hand is a quick clock. I was originally running 4, but found after getting 2 on board, you would rather draw another utility spell.  3 seems the good number to still get one on turn 1 enough.

Guttersnipe - the mid-late game bomb.  Now every counter/cantrip you run is a threat.  And don't underestimate him at 3 mana.  Easily to drop on turn two with a shaman or mox. Then FOW or MM a spell, and from there just hold the board down, while pinging.  Has won me quite a few games.

Abrupt Decay/Izzet Charm - 2 of the best cards IMO from RtR.  Abrupt Decay and Izzet both play a crucial role vs Fish/Oath/Mud/Combo/Grixis/White Trash/GW beats/Goblins/Elves/Merfolk....can even kill tokens in dredge I spose, or counter a Dread Returns....being all around good vs so many decks, I am beginning to think they should be staples in the decks that can run them.

Maelstrom Pulse - I needed something for empty the warrens, or an early Goyf/Ooze army.  I was running Echoing Truth, but with the mass use of dark confidants, I was constantly stuck in the situation of bouncing my Bobs along with theirs.  Maelstrom Pulse is obv more costly, and not blue, but color is normally not an issue with the base/dr shamans.


SB:

Mainly based on a Oath/MUD/Dredge meta.  Additional Abrupt Decay and Trygon has usually been enough to keep creature decks at bay, if needed to can always add in the yixilid jailers.  With the possible rise (and I have already played versus 5-6 ppl using it on cocktrice) Burning Wish Oath, concocted by steve m, Abrupt Decay, and a good counter base are amazing.  I notice that when people play it, they go for the Oath more than the burning wish>storm combo.

I originally had 1 clique in for trygon, meta call, both are great, I prefer the board control of trygon.  
I also ran 2 thoughtseize, which were great at times, and I may add them back somewhere in the 75, side or main.

Copy it up and test it on on trice or workstation, and enjoy.  Its fun, does take thought (lots of choices when you have snipes and dr shamans).  I had one game where I cast lotus, steel sabotaged it, and mental missteped it to win off a guttersnipe.  Some plays that would be absurd otherwise, come up often that can simply win you the game.  Like countering your own abrupt decay....

Anyways, enjoy, discuss, and all up for suggestions.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 05:57:27 PM by serracollector » Logged

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shrewarmies
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2012, 06:33:43 PM »

Looks like we both started in a similar place w deathrite shaman. Your inclusion of guttersnipe as extra pinging damage is interesting and I had not thought of it so my comments are coming from a similar deck I have built w/o the guttersnipe so take my recomendations w a grain of salt.

1) I found running both Bob and Deathrite was a bit of a nonbo as they are both cast for maximum value on turn 1, do you often fin that you have to choose between one or the other? In my version I cut the Bobs in favour of Gush + Fastbond (which also meant bye bye snapcasters). I would think that this is a possible direction for this deck as gush has even more synergy with guttersnipe with the added benefit of not being a turn 1 play so you can maximise shaman activations.

2) No love for natures claim in the main? With so many dudes that you want to play that are essential to your plan, oath becomes a harder matchup and Natures claim really helps that, it even doubles as hate vs shops. I found the lifegain to be mostly irrelevant vs shops as your consistent draw means you can outlive your opponent long enough for your engines to take over. Natures claim also gives you shop hate at 1 (claim),2(grudge) and 3(trygon). I would certainly remove the Steel sabotage and possibly one other card for Natures claims. I would consider cutting the Hurkyl's for a Claim as you are not looking to EoT a Hurkyl's and go broken so more permanent hate may be more beneficial.

3) The Lotus petal seems a bit out of place, is it really better than the pearl you are missing? It can cast your shaman on turn 1 but it does not resist shops spheres like a permanent mana source can.

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disrupting specter
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 07:08:24 PM »

I want to thank you on behalf of my friends for this list. I would never take a list off a discussion thread without seeing it place well in a tournament. He took the list anyway. A different friend ended up in 2nd place at Comic Book Depot, 1/20/13 in NY. He beat me in the quarter finals. I used Forino's Terra Nova but modified. Hopefully the TO report will be posted soon.

I can't make sense of it. I treated it like a fish deck and lost in testing and at the tournament. It is indeed a control deck. I guess control is not my area of expertise. Guttersnipe turns dead/little effect cards into Shocks! Nuttty!
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serracollector
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 04:46:38 AM »

Oh sweet, yea I planned on taking this a tourney, but unfortunately could not make it.  Yes it definitely plays as a control deck, using dr shaman, and guttersniper as mid-late  game win peices.  When the report is up please link it, thanks!  And your welcome.
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Samoht
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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2013, 12:34:20 PM »

There likely won't be a report. I won it on UW Bomberman. He had no answer for Trinket Mage - Lotus, Salvagers GG.
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2013, 04:10:22 PM »

There likely won't be a report. I won it on UW Bomberman. He had no answer for Trinket Mage - Lotus, Salvagers GG.

Nice job, Tom!
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SoulofVenser
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 10:21:20 PM »

This deck is NUTS!!! Its like... it shouldn't work... but it turns out when all spells you cast have shock attached to them, things get ridiculous.
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serracollector
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« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 09:43:41 PM »

I have been testing a new variant of this, and rather liking it so far, been PMing ppl about it, and testing online:


Creatures (16)

Humans : 8
4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Snapcaster Mage

Shamans:
4 x Guttersnipe
4 x Deathrite Shaman

Removal (8)
4 x Abrupt Decay
4 x Lightning Bolt

Brokedeness: (5)
1 x Ancestral Recall
1 x Time Walk
1 x Demonic Tutor
1 x Vampiric Tutor
1 x Mystical Tutor

Mana (25)
5 x Moxen
1 x Black Lotus
1 x Lotus Petal
1 x Mana Crypt
4 x City of Brass
4 x Gemstone Mine
4 x Wasteland
1 x Strip Mine
4 x Cavern of Souls

Disruption: (6)
3 x Thoughtseize
3 x Steel Sabotage



By running only 2 creature types, and the best of those creatures, Caverns is an amazing addition. I no longer run enough blue for the 4 FOW package, but between 3 thoughtseize, 3 steel sabotage, 4 abrupt decay, and 4 lightning bolt you should be able to handle most things.  The deck is more aggro now than control oriented, but can still hold down the board until either shocking them with guttersnipes or with dr. shaman while swinging with the best 2/1's made.  Im really liking this build, and don't really miss the fetches. ENJOY.
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msg67183
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« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 09:49:08 PM »

Very nice! Very innovative! I like it! Good luck with it.
Any reasoning on playing Pearl? It may not be neccessary, especially since this is a "Fish" deck, 25 mana is quite a bit.
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serracollector
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2013, 12:25:21 AM »

All moxen are necessary to drop early bobs and guttersnipes.  25 seems like a lot but remember that 5 are strips, and are almost 100% used as strips not mana, also gemstone mines die in 3 turns or less, and caverns only provides mana for critters, not many colorless costs in this deck (time walk and demonic).  I was even testing Archeological Dig for a while, as it can give any color, and possibly twice with Dr. Shaman.  So realistically I have 8 lands for spells + Moxen + Dr. Shaman (if its online).  You need to get mana up early so you can cast that turn 1 bob or guttersnipe, hopefully via a cavern, and still get a colored source for your other spells.
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Guli
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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2013, 04:41:00 AM »

I would sneak in Tinker and Bot in that list. Also brainstorm!
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tito del monte
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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2013, 08:23:46 AM »

I would sneak in Tinker and Bot in that list. Also brainstorm!

I would probably skip Brainstorm in here, what with the lack of fetchlands. But Demonic Consultation on the other hand, with all those four-ofs, looks tasty as hell!

Certainly a cool build. Will try and give it a spin some time.
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serracollector
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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2013, 12:04:19 PM »

Tinker/Bot could definitely be a SB option at least.  I will throw in Demonic Consultation for Mystical Tutor since I no longer need the blue for FOW, and Consult is obv better in this deck.  Thanks for that totally missed it.  Also, I forgot to post in here forever ago that I finally got to a tourney with this, and made t8.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=45151.0

I made 6th, not bad.  I lost to a turn 1 goyf off lotus petal and a fetch, and I lost to dredge, which is just a matchup I don't test enough for.  So overall the deck performed as I wanted, and lost to what I expected it to. 

Then I saw the BUG list that won BOM, and I was like "damn thats pretty close to my deck sans bolts/guttersnipes".  Then I thought, well if Grixis is so damn good, and BUG is so damn good, why not just combine them, and just play with all the best critters/spells there are? (sans trygon predator, the only guy I miss....sometimes...)

So far I'm loving my Wizard Shaman Sniping deck, and it can still easily be changed for meta purposes.  For example if you expect a high MUD meta, run ancient grudges, they are ridiculous with a Guttersnipe out.  I've even taken a chapter from Brian's Human deck, and started sideboarding Exava, Blood Witch for the jace/standstill matchups.  She is really good, and alongside all your pingers, makes a very fast clock. 

Anyways, if you can figure out a manabase of fetches/duals that will work for this 4 color deck, and still allow 5 strips (the 5 strips are just absolutely necessary IMO), by all means use it and brainstorm, but as mentioned without fetches you might as well play ponder or preordain, IF you were gonna add a cantrip.  I personally just find threat density/bobs/tutors to be perfectly fine.
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