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Author Topic: [Free Article] N.Y. NEV VIII Report  (Read 1615 times)
Prospero
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« on: December 11, 2012, 12:18:40 PM »

I'm posting this on behalf of Brian:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25329_Vintage-NEV-VIII.html?fb_comment_id=fbc_540089949352563_102194519_540385149323043#f2a46fc5cc

I'm pretty biased, but I thoroughly enjoyed the report, and felt that it deserved to be up on TMD.
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 03:17:04 PM »

Quote from: Brian DeMars
5. Can we knock off the maindeck Mental Missteps, REBs, and Flusterstorms PLEASE!

Never give up (my narrow counters)! Never surrender (my narrow counters)!

I'm going to continue playing my maindeck Mindbreak Trap, Misdirection, Misstep, and REB until a Shop deck starts consistently beating me.

Edited for grammar.
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 03:34:42 PM »

Quote from: Brian DeMars
5. Can we knock off the maindeck Mental Missteps, REBs, and Flusterstorms PLEASE!

Never give up (my narrow counters)! Never surrender (my narrow counters)!

I'm going to continue playing my maindeck Mindbreak Trap, Misdirection, Misstep, and REB until my a Shop deck starts consistently beating me.

Mindbreak Trap is not narrow. In fact, it beats the "vaunted" Cavern of Souls quite well.

MD Misdirection at two is tough to do, but I can see it because it can be such a blowout.

I can NOT defend the REB's main in the current meta. They need to be Lightning Bolts. Play Terranova a few times.
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 05:26:43 PM »

I know I successfully resolved Misdirection targeting an opponent's Ancestral at least three times on the day despite only playing out three rounds of Swiss.

I beat Terra Nova in Swiss while on the draw game three but lost to Terra Nova in top four while also on the draw game three. I lost both game ones for different reasons but neither being the counter suite.
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 11:17:49 PM »

Yes, everyone stop playing missteps and flusterstorms so I can go back to casting dark rituals.
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2012, 02:27:24 PM »

Yes, everyone stop playing missteps and flusterstorms so I can go back to casting dark rituals.
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 07:15:41 PM »

I know I successfully resolved Misdirection targeting an opponent's Ancestral at least three times on the day despite only playing out three rounds of Swiss.

I beat Terra Nova in Swiss while on the draw game three but lost to Terra Nova in top four while also on the draw game three. I lost both game ones for different reasons but neither being the counter suite.

Must be nice getting so many Ancestral's to fall into your lap. I played the card as well, and scored 0.

Game 3's are irrelevant, as you would have boarded out your REB's for Bolts anyway. Your deck construction needs to be for Game 1's. There is almost nothing that Bolt does that REB better (outside of killing a Jace that has been +'d) for the deck, while not being able to do many things like kill Bob and other creatures in the format - namely the manlands.
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2012, 08:04:36 PM »

Thank you for posting the article. If 60% of the field is blue why not play the Missteps and Flusterstorms?

How about the lack of Yawgmoth's Will?  I hadn't noticed until Brian mentioned it, interesting.
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2012, 08:36:10 PM »

Thank you for posting the article. If 60% of the field is blue why not play the Missteps and Flusterstorms?

How about the lack of Yawgmoth's Will?  I hadn't noticed until Brian mentioned it, interesting.

If 60% of the field is playing blue and missteps and flusters then I'm playing Cavern of Souls Humans.dec haha.
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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2012, 12:56:03 AM »

Game 3's are irrelevant, as you would have boarded out your REB's for Bolts anyway. Your deck construction needs to be for Game 1's. There is almost nothing that Bolt does that REB better (outside of killing a Jace that has been +'d) for the deck, while not being able to do many things like kill Bob and other creatures in the format - namely the manlands.

That's a very good point I hadn't considered. Why worry about game three on the draw if I can just win game one? For the future (if there is Vintage in my future), I don't think I'll be playing Landstill. If I do, a straight swap of REBs for Bolts seems like the correct call.
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« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2012, 12:52:13 PM »

Game 3's are irrelevant, as you would have boarded out your REB's for Bolts anyway. Your deck construction needs to be for Game 1's. There is almost nothing that Bolt does that REB better (outside of killing a Jace that has been +'d) for the deck, while not being able to do many things like kill Bob and other creatures in the format - namely the manlands.

That's a very good point I hadn't considered. Why worry about game three on the draw if I can just win game one? For the future (if there is Vintage in my future), I don't think I'll be playing Landstill. If I do, a straight swap of REBs for Bolts seems like the correct call.

I mean, you still need to win G3's, but you don't want to sacrifice your G1 %'s either. Your 75 should be constructed in a way to maximize for all match ups, while your 60 needs to focus on winning G1's.
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 07:27:11 PM »

How about the lack of Yawgmoth's Will?  I hadn't noticed until Brian mentioned it, interesting.

Also, note how there is only one copy of Tinker in T8. Yawgmoth's Will and Tinker not dominating Vintage...what is the world coming to?

It's just amazing how quickly metagames can shift, I've noticed it in Europe too. Look at the recent City of Brass/Snapcaster decks with Scavenging Ooze that have been performing well over there. No true draw engines, no Tinker or any other combo wins/"bomb" type stuff, high land counts - they are very pure, very hardy control decks without anything resembling speed. Remember when people questioned whether or not Blightsteel Colossus should be banned? Tinker is hardly even a factor right now. Similarly, some people complained about Gush being an "oppressive" draw engine, but it is rare to see in a T8 (I count only 11 total Gush decks making T8 in the last 3 months of tournaments >30 worldwide).

The rapid wax and wane of styles in Vintage the last few years has been a source of endless entertainment to me, it really makes you feel like every single card choice in your deck matters a whole lot.
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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2012, 10:36:13 PM »

How about the lack of Yawgmoth's Will?  I hadn't noticed until Brian mentioned it, interesting.

Also, note how there is only one copy of Tinker in T8. Yawgmoth's Will and Tinker not dominating Vintage...what is the world coming to?

It's just amazing how quickly metagames can shift, I've noticed it in Europe too. Look at the recent City of Brass/Snapcaster decks with Scavenging Ooze that have been performing well over there. No true draw engines, no Tinker or any other combo wins/"bomb" type stuff, high land counts - they are very pure, very hardy control decks without anything resembling speed. Remember when people questioned whether or not Blightsteel Colossus should be banned? Tinker is hardly even a factor right now. Similarly, some people complained about Gush being an "oppressive" draw engine, but it is rare to see in a T8 (I count only 11 total Gush decks making T8 in the last 3 months of tournaments >30 worldwide).

The rapid wax and wane of styles in Vintage the last few years has been a source of endless entertainment to me, it really makes you feel like every single card choice in your deck matters a whole lot.

I noticed the same thing, however I have been noticing the decline of Tinker with the rise of Workshops, specifically the rise in Martello Shops and Phyrexian Metamorph and Duplicant. What I have just realized is that Kuldotha Forgemaster serves the role that Goblin Welder used to to help battle Tinker in control decks.

The relatively rapid change in the format is healthy. I'm not proposing you argued otherwise, however the changes help prevent the format from becoming stagnant, something I believe people used to be turned away from in formats.
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 06:09:51 AM »

Oh I definitely agree that it's a good thing for the format, I love it. It sorta makes Vintage feel like a "boxed set" game to me, where you have this extensive list of playable cards, and then you puzzle together the best 75 and pilot it to the best of your ability. When you have these quick metagame shifts, you get rewarded for making shrewd decisions on those last few slots in your deck. And because the card pool is so vast, there is still room for innovation - whether it be to punish existing strategies, or to create a new paradigm entirely. For example, not only are blue decks shifting away from Tinker and Will, the best positioned Workshop deck at this tournament didn't even run Tangle Wire (arguably the best card in the Workshop archetype)!
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